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Author Topic: Philips FP-20
John Prince
Film Handler

Posts: 3
From: Horsham, West Sussex, UK
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 05-15-2002 07:56 AM      Profile for John Prince   Email John Prince   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have a problem with sound on start up. Very distorted but comes clean after trailers/ads. Tensioners appears to be ok and loop is not 'to big'. Anyone experienced this problem before?

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John Moriarty
Film Handler

Posts: 50
From: Cambridge, UK
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 05-15-2002 08:21 AM      Profile for John Moriarty   Email John Moriarty   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We had a lot of problems with one of these not too long ago. Throughout the film we would get an underwater sound effect on the analogue sound. We found that turning down the tension of the take up feed on the tower fixed the sound problem, but this wasn't acceptable because it didn't always take up properly.

Eventually we found a loose grub screw connecting the lower constant speed sprocket to the drive, allowing the the sprocket to run unevenly, and tightening it fixed the problem. (It took us a while to find because this had been hidden behind the flywheel that was fitted as part of the reverse scan sound reader).

I'm not sure if this will help, but it is probably worth checking as it won't take too long to do.

John

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 05-15-2002 11:45 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John,

Pull off the flywheel plates...and spin the drum shaft (with the pinch roller raised)...see if the bearings are binding any. With the tiny drum, wow/flutter come in very easily. That is where I would start...then look at the pinch roller.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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John Prince
Film Handler

Posts: 3
From: Horsham, West Sussex, UK
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 05-16-2002 03:40 AM      Profile for John Prince   Email John Prince   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gentlemen all,
Your comments are appreciated. I suspected the flywheel might have something to do with the problem, but just checked that the retaining nuts had not worked loose. Also the pich roller had (almost) seized. This was freed but the problem got worse.

Some of us are seriously old....but we can still bend down to lace up.
I will let you know what happens.
John

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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 05-16-2002 05:49 AM      Profile for Pete Naples   Email Pete Naples   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How's about lay-on (pinch) roller pressure? I've had this exact problem with an FP20, that turned out to be that somehow the lay-on roller pressure had been reduced, by persons unkown. To set it properly you are supposed to use spring balance, there is a figure in the book. I didn't have either book or spring balance with me so I just turned up the lay-on pressure until the sound was audibly stable.

Which drum/lay on roller do you have? If it's the early white plastic coated drum I've often seen problems caused by wear. Replacement with the later metal drum solves it.

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John Prince
Film Handler

Posts: 3
From: Horsham, West Sussex, UK
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 05-16-2002 09:48 AM      Profile for John Prince   Email John Prince   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you all for your comments. We discovered 2 problems. The pressure roller was almost seized but not unduely worn and the optical lens neede re-focusing. The last one is a bit obvious when you come to think about it. Now the Dome at Worthing has the best sound for ages!

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 05-16-2002 09:52 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I didn't say check the flywheel tightness, I said to remove it and check the drum bearings! Kinoton uses a bearing lubricant that can turn into honey and settle in the bottom of the bearings.

Though there is a figure listed for the down pressure on the pinch roller, I normally use a loop of film with tone one it and see how long it takes to stablize. I go with the lowest pressure that allows a stable tone in less than 7 seconds (to ensure a flutter free changeover). If you get too much pressure, the film will "squish" out since Kinoton/Norelco use a tilted roller to force the film to the outboard edge of the roller (instead of a spring loaded flange).

Often the pinch roller performs better when using "Cardan" oil (a little viscous)to provide damping.

Again, start with the drum bearings first...get them all nice a free (probably need to be replaced), then get the drum shaft end-play right, then move to the pinch roller.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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