Film-Tech Cinema Systems
Film-Tech Forum


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile | my password | register | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Why one frame of RP40 on the leader?

   
Author Topic: Why one frame of RP40 on the leader?
John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 05-01-2002 07:16 AM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Author's Homepage   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Some lab leaders have a single frame of RP40 on them; what's the intended use of this? Is it just a "cute gimmick," or is it good for people running telecines, or something else?

If the black on Academy-second countdowns were replaced by RP40, then I suppose few people would bother to buy 35PA or 35IQ from SMPTE. Sure might be handy though...

--jhawk


 |  IP: Logged

Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4067
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 05-01-2002 07:25 AM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It might come in handy for ordinary use and would be of interest for precisely setting framing that takes into account any shifts that occur in printing but in no way would it substitute for the real thing which is optical printer camera original, such camera movements being even more precise than a regular camera.

 |  IP: Logged

Jeff Taylor
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 601
From: Chatham, NJ/East Hampton, NY
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 05-01-2002 07:27 AM      Profile for Jeff Taylor   Email Jeff Taylor   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
...and while we're on the topic of strange, one frame leader inserts, how about that head shot of a 1920's looking blonde who shows up for one frame in all the MGM leaders through the '40's releases?

 |  IP: Logged

John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 05-01-2002 09:03 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The frame of SMPTE 35-PA (RP 40) may have been to verify the image area being printed in an optical printing step. SMPTE normally supplies the 35-PA test film with the BH-1866 negative perforations so it can be used in pin-registered printers. Despite requests to have a "projection only" version having normal KS-1870 print perfs, SMPTE does not provide 35-PA with KS-1870 perfs.

The "girl head" and gray patches in the leader are used by the lab to help monitor and control printer setup and processing. AFAIK, in the days of 3-strip Technicolor it was called the "Lily":
http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/widescreen/mi-techcamera.htm

Kodak's early versions were known as "China Girl" (one version used a ceramic (china) mannequin):
http://www.cinelab.com/tour/print-room/print-room-tour-02.shtm

The version I developed in 1982, known as "LAD Girl", is widely used today:
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/h61/

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


 |  IP: Logged

Jon Miller
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 973
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 05-01-2002 09:24 PM      Profile for Jon Miller   Email Jon Miller   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've happened across SMPTE (Universal) leader with about two seconds worth of RP-40 in the countdown, typically appearing after the seven-second point. This was in the early 1990s, on animated shorts which were compiled into the Spike and Mike's Festival of Animation programs. IIRC, the shorts with the RP-40'd leader were printed at Crest National Film Labs in Hollywood.

Since this leader ended up attached to some of the reels of the program, I had to find and mark the six-second point so I could get the threadup correct, running changeovers.


 |  IP: Logged

Jacob Huber
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 172
From: Evansville, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 05-01-2002 10:05 PM      Profile for Jacob Huber   Email Jacob Huber   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've always wondered what the girl was on the leader for, thanks John.

 |  IP: Logged

Jesse Skeen
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1498
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Aug 2000


 - posted 05-01-2002 10:20 PM      Profile for Jesse Skeen   Email Jesse Skeen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How was she selected, and how much did she get paid? Is her identity available or is it kept secret? (Yes, I've always wondered about those things.)

 |  IP: Logged

John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 05-02-2002 08:22 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kodak's "LAD Girl" is a Rochester-area free-lance model who was hired by Kodak's System Development studio. I was on the set when we shot the 800 feet of 35mm EASTMAN Color Negative II film 5247 in 1982, from which all the current "LAD Girl" control film is made. The original negative has been kept in cold storage, and recently, was scanned and "digital intermediate" made to allow it to be reproduced on current camera original negative film rather than duplicate negative film. Tens of thousands of feet of "LAD Girl" control film are produced annually, and provided to Kodak's laboratory customers.

Frankly, I do not have her name to share. But 20 years later, her image has been used to help control the color and density of thousands of films and television shows worldwide. As I said in my acceptance speech to the Academy, she has probably been in more films than any actress in history.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


 |  IP: Logged

Arthur Allen
Film Handler

Posts: 98
From: Renton, WA, USA
Registered: Aug 2001


 - posted 05-03-2002 08:25 AM      Profile for Arthur Allen   Author's Homepage   Email Arthur Allen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I wonder about the logic about a different color test woman in the front of 16mm school films in the 1970s, wearing a flesh colored swim top. When she poped on for a 24th of a second in a room full of horny pre-teens, we were all wondering if we really saw what we thought we saw.

 |  IP: Logged

Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5200
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 05-04-2002 05:32 PM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I always wondered how difficult it would be to print the first and last frames of a reel respectively at the head and tail section of the leader, similar to the color test girl frames. This would eliminate the hated fan-fold, accordian effect at the splice joints created when each splice-jockey tries to leave a single frame of image on the leader side of the cut as an "identifier" frame. If there were a few identifier image frames in the leader sections, that would eliminate all that nonsense at the joint. Or not. Depending on how dense the guy doing the splicing is. I guess any system to encourage print integrity can be twarted.

 |  IP: Logged

Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9470
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-04-2002 08:27 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Frank I have brought that idea up at P3 for years and have been told it would be to costly for the labs to make up a special leader for each reel

 |  IP: Logged

Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5200
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 05-05-2002 03:25 PM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ah, as always, money talks.

 |  IP: Logged

John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 05-06-2002 11:10 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's not just a "money" issue. To put a few actual frames of the first/last scenes into the leaders of each reel would require making a duplicate negative of those few frames. The extra handling/printing/processing would add a day or two to the lab time, and put the original cut negative at additional risk.

SMPTE 301 specifies frames 145 - 152 of the head leader as a location for "Control Test" frames, which could include control films like "LAD Girl" or reference frames. Perhaps the negative cutter could be allowed to use the adjacent "outtake" negative as the reference frame to insert into the leader?

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

 |  IP: Logged

John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 05-06-2002 11:14 AM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Author's Homepage   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How are the leaders with stylized lettering and logotypes produced? If they're computer-generated, perhaps the first/last frame could be scanned on a film scanner directly from a negative.

I suppose this has some of the same handling problems, but probably not the same delay issues.

--jhawk

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4067
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 05-08-2002 04:09 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Leave it to the French to have a topless LAD girl.

And then there is the one I have here now, on a French B&W film where the girl is not topless but is wearing something with a paisley pattern that could almost double as a focus test chart.

 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central (GMT -6:00)  
Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2018 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.