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This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: Video Projections
Don Anderson
Master Film Handler

Posts: 312
From: West Bend, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 04-28-2002 01:46 AM      Profile for Don Anderson   Email Don Anderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I went to see the film BOTTLE ROCKET at a local theatre in town. I was expecting to view a 35mm print. Instead, the theatre was using an impressive video projector to screen it. Is this common practice? Is it a special tape for theatre use only? Where does one go to get it booked, or arrange to book videos? I was kinda disappointed. The picture was nice and bright, but only 16'x16', give or take a foot.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 04-28-2002 03:10 AM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'll bet it was a $4,000 LCD projector running with a DVD. You probably seen about 10, maybe 11 foot-lamberts on the screen, but if you walked up to the screen, the picture would start looking quite crappy at a distance of 20 feet or so.



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John Moriarty
Film Handler

Posts: 50
From: Cambridge, UK
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 04-28-2002 04:14 AM      Profile for John Moriarty   Email John Moriarty   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
At our university there are a number of film societies (student run cinemas) who show films using video projectors and DVDs (and in some cases VHS). To the best of my knowledge they use standard consumer disks (or tapes) but haven't a clue how they handlecopyright licensing and such.

I've only been to a small number of showings done this way (they show at the same times as we do) but I've never particularly noticed the image to be bad (ignoring the small number of DVD artifacts) nor have I heard any complaints. But they are only projecting onto small(ish) screens (though the throw is in some cases quite long), so perhaps you wouldn't expect to notice.


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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 04-28-2002 08:46 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Let me preface this with the fact that I haven't yet had my morning cawffee.

First off,...now is probably a good time we stopped refering to these
little fun gatherings as "FILM Societies;" VIDEO Societies is about the long and short of it. Secondly, I'll bet 80-90% of all these campus setups are run with the particularly youthful perspective of: "Exhibition license? We don't need no stinking exhibition license." The MPAA should make a lot more of a stink about this kind of infringment than squawking about some guy selling a trailer on ebay for five bucks.

Lastly, once again this seems to be just another example of America's joy at wallowing in mediocrity. Sure you can SEE an image, sure you can follow the movie storyline, but instead of watching the quality of 35mm film, and caring about all the time and creative energy that hundreds of craftsmen put into creating a film of a particular quality, these kids find no problem SETTLING -- settling for expediencey, for the fast and cheap, and for the less than perfect....and not minding.

Do we care that the image has be tortured to fit into a square screen when it was composed for a wide rectangle? Do we care that the contrast ratio is garbage or the resolution doesn't come lose to the original? Nah; we think that's just fine. It's our cultural disease. It's like looking at a Monet painting, only not the original work, but a picture of it in an art book, or hey, even a xerox of that art book picture. Are you seeing all the nuances of Monet's genius? Not a chance.

Problem is, evidently we'ver raised a generation who could care less....a generation that actually thinks that the stuff they serve at McDonald's/Burger King/White Castle et al, is really food and the noise that comes out of Brittney Speares' mouth is really music.

Again, my apologies for posting before I've had my morning coffee.


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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-28-2002 09:31 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I won't comment on whether public video screenings of film-originated material is a good idea (Frank pretty much said all that needs to be said), but I will point out that it _is_ possible to license these screenings properly. Swank, Criterion, and presumably other nontheatrical distributors will rent and license videotapes (and maybe DVDs now) for public nontheatrical exhibition. I don't know how the cost compares to 16mm or 35mm licensing.

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Brad Haven
Master Film Handler

Posts: 300
From: fremantle, West Australia
Registered: Aug 2001


 - posted 04-28-2002 10:57 AM      Profile for Brad Haven   Email Brad Haven   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bottle rocket is available on 35mm, so i guess you got ripped off!.
I'm sad to admit that i have had to run a couple of video screenings in our 35mm equiped art house cinema, but these films (i was told) were not available on film and were part of a festival. During these screenings i would hide so that no one saw my face, i dont want to associated with these crappy things called video tape (VHS PAL).
This kind of thing should not be encouraged!

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John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 04-28-2002 11:51 AM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Scott,

The cost of a DVD license from Swank is the same as the cost of a 16mm license.

--jhawk

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Bob Peticolas
Film Handler

Posts: 73
From: Mesilla, New Mexico
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 04-28-2002 06:04 PM      Profile for Bob Peticolas   Author's Homepage   Email Bob Peticolas   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We run video once in a while and have no problems with licensing from the distributors. For instance, we run "Rocky Horror..." every halloween night at midnight. We pay the distributor his usual advance and work out a percentage on the gross. Booking a 35mm print is impossible, they're booked years in advance. We rent a DVD from Hastings and every body is happy. (Our audience is very happy as we have digital stereo from the DVD, and the picture on our 10' by 22' screen is acceptable. Some say it's almost as bright as the 2k xenon in our Brenkert. Our throw for video is about 45', the 35mm is 50'.)

We have run some "classic" films from DVD when the 35mm prints just weren't available. The one comment that stands out about the video presentation is "the subtitles were readable for once" (they were inserted below the letterboxed image on the DVD - I adjusted the zoom to fill the screen from the top to just below the picture with the subtitles just above the bottom masking. White letters on black - easy to read .

I'v gotten up close to the screen and I notice the holes in the screen before I can see any pixalation from the video projector.

Of course, YMMV.

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 04-29-2002 05:11 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bob,

I work on and near two college campuses and although you are doing the right thing by licensing thru Swank or other non-theatrical houses, I can point to at least half a dozen screening rooms in dorms or even common Student Union rooms where students run "Movie Festivals" with no more concern for paying a $300 - $400 licensing fee than they do for the drinking age laws. Now multiply that by every college dorm and Student Union building across the country and you can see why Films, Inc, Audio Brandon, Twyman Films, etc., all went belly up and why Swank holds on to the non-theatrical market by its fingernails.

As for seeing pixilation and image brightness? You are probably right, you may not see pixilation and they may be able to get a "bright" image. But pixilation and screen illumination are hardly the only artifacts that separate the rich look of film from the look of NTSC projected video. Is the video watchable? Sure. Is it film? Come on.

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Joe Beres
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 606
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 04-29-2002 11:31 AM      Profile for Joe Beres   Email Joe Beres   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Don,
I am guessing you are referring to the Rosebud (an otherwise fun theater to see FILMS at) as I have heard about them doing this in the past. I am guessing that Paul is right in that they were showing the DVD. If it was me that paid my admission, sat down to only watch tv, I would get my money back and go rent the thing and watch it at home. I really don't approve of theaters showing a video instead of a print unless it is really clear in the advertising and at the box office.

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Tom Sauter
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 163
From: Buffalo, NY, USA
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 04-29-2002 11:31 AM      Profile for Tom Sauter   Author's Homepage   Email Tom Sauter   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have intalled video systems playing DVD's that rival the quality of 16mm. This is a subjective statement, considering that most of the 16mm non-theatrical release prints I see are beat to hell. Given a choice of playing a terrible 16mm print or a DVD with digital audio and nice subtitles, its the integrity and not the resolution of what ends up on screen that keeps 'em coming back for more. A good video projector and scan conversion system will run you between $10k-$20k, which is comparable in price to an Eiki pedestal 16mm.

I would still rather screen a pristine 16mm or 35mm print, but when those are not options we have to do our best to get the best video image possible on screen.

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Joe Beres
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 606
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 04-29-2002 11:38 AM      Profile for Joe Beres   Email Joe Beres   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tom,
Do people know what they will be seeing when they buy a ticket? What kind of theater do you have? (Do you always run films or are films just kind of a special attraction kind of thing?, are you always running dvds? I am just curious) I certianly agree with you about the state of many of the available 16mm prints. It's too bad.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-29-2002 12:25 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I for one would demand my money back if I went to a theatre and was shown a video.
Most 16mm still looks better than video projection

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Don Anderson
Master Film Handler

Posts: 312
From: West Bend, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 04-30-2002 02:41 AM      Profile for Don Anderson   Email Don Anderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joe, yup it was that theatre. Nope, I get in on a passlist, so I can't complain about paying to see a video. I don't think the source was a DVD, as towards the end of the film there were glitches on the screen. Its a nice venue, great selection of beer on tap too!

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 04-30-2002 08:27 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry, I'd just stay home to watch a movie on videotape or DVD, even if I had a free pass.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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