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Topic: Scratches at my first trip to a new cinema

Michael Brown
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1522
From: Bradford, England
Registered: May 2001

posted 04-09-2002 03:18 PM

I recently saw Collateral Damage at a new 13 screen multi. I was in one of the large auditoriums. There were some scratches on the bottom right corner. They filled up most of the corner and ran at about a 45 degree angle. Most noticable in bright shots.

Any thoughts?

Hopefully they just had a bad day. In a week or so i'll be going again. They have some nice sound systems. And Dolby EX in 2 screens And the screens are big. 1.85:1 wall to wall in the screen i was in (humm must be vertical masking)

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 04-09-2002 03:35 PM

Most likely "platter scratches", caused by careless misalignment of a roller as the print took up on the platter.

The topic has been discussed on Film-Tech many times, and is covered in the "Tips" section. Please help them out by tuning them into "Film Done Right".

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Lee Davies
Film Handler

Posts: 28
From: Bolton, England
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 04-09-2002 08:16 PM

Our copy of Collateral Damage was a well used, second hand US print. Perhaps the damage was done before this multiplex got hold of it? Just a thought!

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Michael Brown
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1522
From: Bradford, England
Registered: May 2001

posted 04-10-2002 07:12 AM

You mean like an import.

I could have well been.

I was more interested with how the print was scratched, not who was to blaim

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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 04-10-2002 08:59 AM

Someone in UK exhibition tell me if this practice of sending trached US prints across here still goes on? I used to receive scorched/scratched/leaderless etc prints all the time. The distributors would be all surprised and say, 'but it's a new print from the US'. Cheap secondhand print from the US more like. I'm not saying all US prints are like this btw!

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Michael Brown
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1522
From: Bradford, England
Registered: May 2001

posted 04-10-2002 09:03 AM

I've noticed films with the USA rating band attached at the end before.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 04-10-2002 09:29 AM

Fortunately, the practice of sending used "rejuvenated" US prints overseas is less common now that many features are released day-in-date worldwide to take advantage of worldwide promotion and publicity on the Internet and satellite television. Simultaneous first-run release worldwide also helps combat movie piracy, since people can immediately see the film properly presented in a theatre, rather than a poor quality pirated video.
------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 04-10-2002 09:36 AM

Imported prints were still quite common when I finished working in cinemas just over a year ago. Most of them seemed to come from Buena Vista. If they had been ultrasonically cleaned on import they were usually OK - the modern cleaners are pretty good at getting rid of even quite deep base scratches.

We got quite a good demonstration of this with The Mummy because reels 1 and 3-6 were imports, but all the reel 2s were reprinted because the British censors had demanded cuts. This was explained to me when the first print I got had a very deep base tramline down all of the reels except 2 and I rang up the distributor complaining about it. Apart from the tramline, however, I couldn't tell reel 2 apart from the rest of the print. Obviously a scratch that deep is beyond hope, but otherwise the print was very clean.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 04-10-2002 10:42 AM

Ultrasonic solvent cleaning will remove dirt and oil from a print, but unfortunately, cannot remove scratches.

Superficial emulsion-side scratches (not deep enough to damage the dye layers) can be permanently "healed" by an aqueous "rewash" process:
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/processing/operating7.shtml#rewashing

The aqueous rewash process also effectively removes embedded dirt particles.

Base-side scratches on triacetate film were often treated with "glass wheel polishing" using solvents that dissolved the top surface of film base and recast/polished it to a smooth surface.

Polyester (ESTAR) film base does not dissolve in solvents, so "rejuvenation" is sometimes attempted using a lacquer or UV-cured polymer coating.

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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 04-10-2002 11:35 AM

Yes Leo I seem to recall BVI being one of the worst offenders. I'ev no problem with a cleaned secondhand print, but soem fo the crap I used to get was fit only to be filed in the round file. A dead give away was a copy number 'USA xxx'

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 04-10-2002 03:49 PM

Yup, brings back memories. I had the occasional duff import from UIP too, but Buena Vista were certainly the main offenders. Surely it makes sense to put more stringent quality control in place before the export. If the bottom line is that a print with average wear and tear can be bought back to a nearly new condition by means of cleaning for significantly less than the cost of striking a new print, then you want to stop the prints that are damaged beyond hope from being sent over. After all, the cost of transatlantic shipping and ultrasonic cleaning must be a significant part of this equation and if this payment is wasted by shipping and cleaning an NFG print which the receiving cinema then rejects, I'd guess that the economies of scale of recycling prints relative to making new ones would get seriously hit.

John P's explanation re ultrasonic cleaners gives me grey hairs about the prospect of ever needing to preserve scratched master status film elements originated on polyester. With acetate and nitrate, the combination treatment of ultrasonic cleaning, rewashing and polishing would remove 90% of the scratching and dirt from the average element, even quite a worn one. Given that scratch diminution treatment for poly can only be accomplished by adding a chemical compound to the film (rather than removing a miniscule proportion of the base layer, as acetone & glass wheel polishing did), I guess this could end up being seriously problmeatic. But as the only polyester elements in our care are (i) ones we've had printed, and therefore can ensure that they won't ever get scratched, and (ii) viewing copies, I'm not going to lose much sleep over this - yet.

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Charles Everett
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1470
From: New Jersey
Registered: May 2001

posted 04-10-2002 05:18 PM

Putting this back on topic . . .

The Edgewater Multiplex Cinemas in New Jersey opened just before Xmas 2000. I saw Memento there on 4/22/2001 -- a little more than 4 months after the theater opened. Nice building, stadium seating, Dolby Digital . . . and vertical scratches in every reel. Not only that, green vertical scratches in at least 2 reels! I e-mailed National Amusements about this but never received a reply.

For those not familiar with New Jersey, Edgewater is along the Hudson River between the George Washington Bridge and the Lincoln Tunnel.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 04-11-2002 08:56 AM

Leo - total immersion wet printing works quite well for hiding any base scratches or other surface defects on polyester (ESTAR) base printing originals, so it's unlikely you would need to apply a lacquer or UV-cured coating to make a defect-free copy:
http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/motion/support/h1/printingP.shtml#wetgate

Some laboratories have used the UV-cured coating on badly worn or scratched printing negatives used for dry release printing, that would otherwise have to be discarded. But these are not considered preservation elements.

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