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Topic: Towers and long films

Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 04-06-2002 09:34 AM

Well from the looks of the current crop of towers...about 3hours is the limit on a continious show.

What do you people with tower film transports do about such films as Titanic, or the recent long films this past winter (Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings, once previews and adverts are put on)? Did they fit on your towers or did you have to create an intermission. And if you did create an intermission, how did you choose? Did the studio provide any guidance on the intermission placement (knowing that in many European countries intermissions are expected)?

I have a potential tower situation and am curious.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Bernard Tonks
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 619
From: Cranleigh, Surrey, England
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-06-2002 11:05 AM

With polyester stock on a 36” diameter spool the limit is about 2 hours 45 minutes. Titanic I had to have an intermission. Harry Potter I run straight through as it was under 150 minutes, an interval was allowed at the end of reel 5 if requested, the renter then sent you the intermission title. Lord Of The Rings, the intermission allowed in the UK was at the end of reel 3, in Germany I believe at the end of reel 5.

No 2 projector was used for the Adverts & Trailers.

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 04-06-2002 11:14 AM

Man, the Europeans have it so easy. Imagine calling up any of the distribs here in the good ole US of A, asking for them to send an intermission snipe cause you want to put in an intermission....and, oh, yah, how about sending one with some intermission music on it as well?

OK, you can stop laughing now.

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Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-06-2002 11:37 AM

Titanic at 194 minutes will fit fine on a 40" reel (with 8" core) It will also fit on a 39" reel with a 5-3/4" core (but not as fine). Everything else (with a few exceptions) is shorter than that and so they will fit on a 40"er just fine. So if you have a tower with 40" reels, you're set. Most films will fit on 34"-36" reels

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Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut
http://www.muellersatomics.com/

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000

posted 04-06-2002 05:35 PM

With "giant" reels (my term; I call the 5-6K's "big" reels) rewinding becomes an issue since it must be done entirely between shows. So how long to rewind one of those puppies, about 20 min?

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Tom Fermanian
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 101
From: Sainte Adele, Quebec, Canada
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 04-06-2002 06:00 PM

In one of our cinemas (2 screens), we have Xetron walts that carry 18,000FT. reels, it takes betwenn 18 min. average 105 min. show to 24 min. 165min. show, Twin sometimes runs 4 different pictures a night so, rewinding is done after shows during cleanup or next day during preparation. When running single pictures we give 30 to 40 minutes between shows anyway for cleanup & preparation.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 04-06-2002 11:04 PM

I'm looking to use a Kinoton SPT 5000K spool tower...it will handle 40" reels but claims to want 11" or larger hubs. So I hadn't planned to have 8" hubs offered...only 12" (since hubs in that size move from 10 to 12 inch). So will Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings fit onto a 12 hub, 40" flange reel?

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-07-2002 12:25 AM

Haven't tried that one specifically but it's amazing how little difference the hub size matters compared to the outside diameter. Really that 4" difference at the hub amounts to only about 1/3-1/2 of a reel. I'd say no to Titanic but yes to the other two. Maybe you can get into the speed control and up the top end a bit to get down to 8"

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Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut
http://www.muellersatomics.com/

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 04-07-2002 01:34 AM

It has been my understanding that the weight of the film mounted on the 14,000-foot reels (or whatever they were) would cause damage to the inner-most convolutions if the reels were constantly left in the vertical position. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

Paul

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 04-07-2002 07:31 AM

No, but I've long suspected that the sheer weight of film stock together with its uneven distribution when mounted vertically is a strong argument against the use of towers. I can see that in projection boxes with a very small footprint space they might be a necessary evil, but I've never liked the things.

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Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-07-2002 11:28 AM

Paul
I haven't seen any damage over the last 10 years

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Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut
http://www.muellersatomics.com/

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 04-07-2002 11:47 AM

Well the space I'm looking to install one has a space problem and film will only be shown in it 2-6 times per year (so no storage problem...just build it up, show it, and break it down). I suspect even the tower will be on wheels to get it out of the way except on show day.

I guess I'm gonna pose the question to Kinoton as to just how small a hub it can really handle (if so tweeked).

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Bernard Tonks
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 619
From: Cranleigh, Surrey, England
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 04-07-2002 04:14 PM

I used 6” hubs on 36” diameter spools, and with the projector on slow-mo start e.g. transformer tapped at 165 volts with a relay delay before full load of 230 volts on initial start, the take-up was always smooth without snatching.

The wire type Kinoton spools should be very efficient and trouble free. One operator I know of has been touring the country in mostly live theatre venues with the film “ Singalong Sound Of Music”. There of course is an alternative, the Cinemecannica easy-spool with 8” hubs only turning until well after initial start, the cheeks being free revolving! Going by a local theatre which has an annual week of film classics, the hired Kinoton projector and tower is installed in the most confined space.

Edit correction 05.07.2002 - (projector on slow-mo start) inserted in the first paragraph!

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Per Hauberg
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 883
From: Malling, Denmark
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 04-07-2002 04:31 PM

It's not that easy in all Europe !
The Potter-intermission was made in half the danish first-run theatres after the british tip, found on the Film-Tech site, but certainly not with the blessing of the local distributor, who meant this was to make an extra turn of concession-profit for each show, and absolutely could n o t deliver any intermission-sign.
Had to run without intermission the last 3 weeks, to get schedule to work, and my impression was, that audiences (of course mostly families with kids) were happy with the break. -People leaving after the run-through-shows thought the film was too long !

Lord of the Rings prints were delivered with intermission, but many (greedy)theatres took it out to make room for an extra show per day.
A bit tough sitting through exactly that one, i think.

Per

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Per Hauberg
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 883
From: Malling, Denmark
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 04-07-2002 04:32 PM

--but we sure d i d sell a lot during those Potter-breaks

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