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Author Topic: need advice on xenon alignment?
Brad Haven
Master Film Handler

Posts: 300
From: fremantle, West Australia
Registered: Aug 2001


 - posted 03-27-2002 05:52 AM      Profile for Brad Haven   Email Brad Haven   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
lamphouse : super lume-x
xenon : ushio 1600k
I am having problems aligning the xenon!
I am left with dark shadows on the top left and right, with bottom half being evenly lit. Using the bulb adjustment controls i have lifted the light as high and as even as possible, the control wont lift any higher!. The only possible solution i can see, is to adjust the height of the yoke?. Would i be right on this or can anyone think of another reason/solution?. Also to lift the light (on screen) higher, would i need to raise or lower the yoke?.
I have changed/rotated xenons before (in other cinemas) , but always without incident, but my experience is limited!
If anyone could help with some words of wisdom, they would be greatly appreciated?
This problem has been in this cinema for a couple of years, but no one else could/would fix it! The person who used to maintain the xenons has since left the company.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 03-27-2002 06:50 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is the lamphouse itself properly aligned with the projector's optical axis? Is the distance from the reflector to the aperture correct?

First step is checking alignment and distance:
http://www.muellersatomics.com/alignotron.htm

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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Brad Haven
Master Film Handler

Posts: 300
From: fremantle, West Australia
Registered: Aug 2001


 - posted 03-27-2002 07:06 AM      Profile for Brad Haven   Email Brad Haven   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
i dont believe that it has been properly aligned.
i hope to get our local tech in to do an alignment some time soon.
i dont believe that my company would fork out for the align o tron , but i could give the string method a try, atleast it would give me an idea of how close i am?

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-27-2002 07:52 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Once you have done the string method look at the bullseye on the screen with no lens and the rear alignment in the centre position then move the yoke to centre the bullseye.
Then you will have some adjustment at the rear end of the lamphouse for fine tunning

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 03-27-2002 08:43 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
And once you do all those things....use the string, use the big stick with the thing that sticks in the lens holder, and you get that round black spot to sit perfectly centered on the screen when you have the lens out, xenon lovers will make it sound like that will get you a completely even, corner-to-corner light. Well, my friend, that would only be true if you were aligning a CARBON ARC lamphouse. With xenon, you may have to resign yourself to settle for uneven light, mottled with dark spots and hot spots that just move around the screen while you twist and turn the alignment nuts until you're blue in the face. I mean, how much "alignment" can you do with a lamphouse that can only sit one way on the pedestal? Either the screw holes in the lamphouse line up with the slots or they don't -- it's not like you have any fine adjustments left and right. The only thing you can really adjust is the distance from the center of the bulb to the center of the aperture plate. And believe me, you can have that distance correct down to the millimeter and that won't guaranttee you anything in terms of no hot spots or dark corners. And lastly, don't fall into the trap of thinking, "Oh, geez, I must be doing something wrong....it must take a 'tech guy' to align this" HAH! You ARE the tech guy. What...you think he's got some magical powers that you don't have? He knows some special "tech controls" in the belly of the lamphouse that's gonna make it put out an even, beautiful light? Maybe in some mythical world, but when it comes to xenon, I'll bet you're pretty much are doing it all right -- it's just a crappy lamphouse. IT AIN'T YOUR FAULT!

(See what happens when I log on before I have my morning coffee?)

Sorry guys.

Frank

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Jeff Taylor
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 601
From: Chatham, NJ/East Hampton, NY
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 03-27-2002 08:52 AM      Profile for Jeff Taylor   Email Jeff Taylor   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
C'mon Frank. Stop pussyfooting around and tell us what you REALLY think!

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Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2321
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 03-27-2002 08:52 AM      Profile for Dave Macaulay   Email Dave Macaulay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The SLX uses the little pin clip to set the height of the yoke, and it usually comes close to being correct if you use the right hole. The Ushio CX16 is physically the same as the Osram 1600HSC and uses the brass threaded-on cathode adapter and the chrome anode extension, correct?
For this setup the pin must be in the bottom hole - thus the yoke is at its highest "preset" position. (page 12 in the newer SLX manual)
Unless the lamphouse has been maladjusted via the threaded rod inside, or it has a new type adjustable mirror that has been maladjusted, this should give a well centred beam right down the design axis.
Try removing the main lens and aperture plate and projecting white light on screen (motor running!). With the cathode adjustment roughly centred you should be able to get a basically circular pattern with the light brightness symmetrical around the centre, excluding the cable shadow. That happens when the lamp arc is centred in the (properly shaped and not bent or dented to hell) mirror and near the focal point. If the cathode adjuster is right at one edge to do this, you can move the anode yoke the same way to correct it. Up is easy, down you remove the pin, sideways you turn the yoke so it isn't perpendicular to the mirror. Don't get anal about the cathode being perfectly in the centre of its adjustment.
The centre of the round light pattern on screen must be very close to the centre of your scope screen. The 1.85 masked screen area may be off center depending on what masking edges move but the scope area is the important one for this. If it isn't centred - the lamphouse is misaligned with the projector head.
If you have the lens and mirror adapters and want to use the string method give it a try.
An important thing to remember is that the aperture is one of the alignment points.
The string reflection should match the string image all around, with the string passing through the centre of the film aperture. The old fixed mirrors made this hard to screw up, the new adjustable one lets you get the string looking good with the lamphouse axis offset to the projector optical axis.
The aluminum yoke adapter thingy for the string method is pretty useless for setting the yoke, but handy for aiming the adjustable mirror. The string should look "right" in the mirror, and go through the centre of the yoke adapter hole with the yoke square to the mirror and set with the pin in the bottom hole (highest yoke position!). Then align the lamphouse and projector without changing the mirror settings.

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Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-27-2002 09:07 AM      Profile for Greg Mueller   Author's Homepage   Email Greg Mueller   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What you can do to help with your alignment is to make an "intermediate" or "adapter plate" which would go between the lamp house and it normal mounting place. Put slots in that adapter plate so you can move the lamphouse from side to side. You will then be able to move the lamphouse forward and backward and side to side. You can adjust in the third dimension by using washers or other little blocks to raise and lower the lamphouse. Another problem I ran into was that although the lamphouse appeared to be straight it was really skewed to the side. It took all of the available slop to get it really lined up. The worst offender was the aim of the reflector. That single thing wound up being most of the problem. When mine was replaced (blown bulb) the tech simply screwed the refector aiming screws down tight against the springs. That made the aim way off. The Super Lume-X (the one with the spring loaded reflector) really benefits from using a laser type device

------------------
Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut http://www.muellersatomics.com/


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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 03-27-2002 09:54 AM      Profile for Pete Naples   Email Pete Naples   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Frank, since when??

I've never seen a pedestal that DOESN'T allow you to move the lamphouse table up, down, left and right, as well as back and forward. Most pedestals are designs from the carbon arc days anyway. The Westrex one that is common here (probably similar to a simplex or century) has a table that is adjustable indepently of the rest of it. Much the same way as the current Strong pedestal does. With regard to evenness of light. I have Lume-X all over the place here. Some of them will actually give you 16fl all over the screen. And those ones we end up pulling back the bulb focus because it doesn't look right, it's too flat. We pull the focus back to a point where the corners drop off, but are still within SMPTE spec. Can you explain to me what is different between aligning a carbon lamp and a xenon arc lamp? Both have a mirror which needs to be aligned to the arc, and both must be aligned to the optical centre of the machine. If you've only ever seen xenon light as you describe, then you have seen some very poorly installed and aligned lamphouses.

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Greg Pauley
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 173
From: Huntington, WV, USA
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 03-27-2002 10:14 AM      Profile for Greg Pauley   Author's Homepage   Email Greg Pauley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"I mean, how much "alignment" can you do with a lamphouse that can only sit one way on the pedestal? Either the screw holes in the lamphouse line up with the slots or they don't -- it's not like you have any fine adjustments left and right. "

Frank, What type of pedestal are you working with? Every pedestal we use have horizontal and vertical adjustments for the position of the lamphouse and you can easily have the lamphouse out of alignment. The fact that the holes lineup with the lamphouse means nothing as far as the alignment of the lamphouse. Brad, how old is the reflector? I have found a few metal reflectors in our Super Lume-X have warped due to excessive heat and will not allow even light regardless of how much you align the lamphouse. If you have another Super that has a good light output, you may want to switch the reflector to see if the problem moves with the reflector. My experience with Super Lume-X is they give a good even light output whenever they are align properly and have a good reflectors

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Brad Haven
Master Film Handler

Posts: 300
From: fremantle, West Australia
Registered: Aug 2001


 - posted 03-27-2002 10:16 AM      Profile for Brad Haven   Email Brad Haven   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
thank's for the very interesting comment's/suggestions.
this morning when i rotated the other xenon i was very pleased with the result, very even light across the entire scope screen, the entire process taking just 5 mins, 3000hrs down and still plenty of gas left in the tank!
well... i've printed out the posts so far and i'll take them into work tomorrow and work out my plan of action!
thanks
brad

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Brad Haven
Master Film Handler

Posts: 300
From: fremantle, West Australia
Registered: Aug 2001


 - posted 03-27-2002 10:24 AM      Profile for Brad Haven   Email Brad Haven   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
greg,
As the cinema was set up about 10 years ago , i'd say 10 years?.
Would a warp be visible to the eye or only by the test you suggested?.
i'm not sure of how to swap a reflector, but there are people around in perth that would help if needed?

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Greg Pauley
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 173
From: Huntington, WV, USA
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 03-27-2002 10:45 AM      Profile for Greg Pauley   Author's Homepage   Email Greg Pauley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad,

Pretty easy to remove the reflector on a Super Lume-X. You will need to remove the bulb using protective gear. There are 4 screws that hold the reflector to the mount from the back side of the reflector. Remove the screws and pull the reflector (there are 2 aligning pins that the reflector sit on). After you remove the reflector, hold it like a bowl and look for any obvious defects. The ones I saw were all deformed around the cutout on the back of the reflector. Should be pretty obvious if they are bent. Also, look for any discoloration of the surface of the reflector. If you see a lot of blue or green color, it's time for a new reflector.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-27-2002 04:04 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually some of the Simplex LL3 bases (or is it LL1) had minimal lamphouse adjustment

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Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 03-27-2002 09:43 PM      Profile for Josh Jones   Author's Homepage   Email Josh Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gord, the LL-1 was the heavy cast-iron bastard wasnt it?
the LL-2(sheet metal) is more common, never heard of an LL-3

as for the xenon and carbon thing, all of the light in a carbon arc lamp comes from the glowing crater. in a xenon, it is the plasma ball giving off all the light. collecting light from a wondering plasma shere is difficult. they could take all of the light from the anode, but it would look quite orange on screen

Josh

------------------
"Film is made of silver, video is made of rust"
'nuf said

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