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» Film-Tech Forum   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Tips on applying filmguard by hand (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Tips on applying filmguard by hand
Joe Beres
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 606
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 03-13-2002 06:49 PM      Profile for Joe Beres   Email Joe Beres   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ok, don't hit me. I know the subject of Filmguard has been discussed to great length here, but I haven't found much about applying it by hand. I know that using a Kelmar cleaner or something similar is best, but that isn't going to happen here anytime soon. I want to start out by treating some of my 16mm prints. I know it can be applied in the same manner as other cleaners, but the other cleaners I have used were meant to evaporate before winding on the reel, so it isn't going to be quite the same. That leads me to the following questions:

-What is the best type of cloth to use?
-How soaked should the cloth be?
-How many wet and/or dry passes should be used to get an even application akin to a machine cleaning?
-Do you have any other advice?

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 03-13-2002 09:54 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hear, hear!

I just got my first bottle about two weeks ago and I have the same questions. I just got new PTR's and they didn't come cheap, so I don't want to ask for a media cleaner until some time more has passed.

So far, I've applied FilmGuard to a few policy trailers. On the first one, I did one wet pass and a few dry passes to soak up the oozing. The others were easier because I used a new wipe with less FilmGuard than the first one. For the trailers, I used Webril wipes.

As far as the features, I'm not having much trouble with dirt on-screen. I really just want to stop all this shedding that's happening. So I'm practicing with one movie. I wiped down the edge of the film (as it lay on the platter) and then the next day I rewound that movie with track down so I could then wipe the other side. For these applications, I used a cloth shop rag because Webril can sometimes get caught on splices, leaving cotton bits behind.

I had read about the overzealous manager who used FilmGuard to clean the platters...prints got tossed...so I decided to play a full day with the freshly coated edge up so as to avoid any chance that it would transfer onto the platter. Maybe this was overkill, but I really didn't want to have a catastrophe on my hands...they'd never let me order or use FilmGuard again.

------------------
And, hey! Let's be careful out there.

~Manny.


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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 03-13-2002 10:07 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Manny Knowles said: "I really just want to stop all this shedding that's happening."

What is the edgeprint ID on the shedding prints? Since Kodak introduced VISION Color Print a few years ago, shedding/dusting is greatly reduced. As John Wilson noted in another thread, there still are some other polyester stocks that shed and develop significant static charge. Trailers and ads are sometimes printed on these cheaper stocks.

Be sure you are not using excessive gate or intermittent shoe tension, and that you have the latest projector upgrades:
http://www.christiedigital.com/Cinema/fldblt/FLDBLT_Dusting_111.pdf

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9472
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-13-2002 10:41 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
PTR's and Filmguard don't mix read the several topics here about that

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17695
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 03-14-2002 05:10 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
The best advice I can give to people cleaning by hand is simple, 1 ounce is enough to clean an entire 35mm feature. 99.9% of the time, cleaning by hand results in far more than necessary (and optimal) FilmGuard on the print. If you see oozing, you are really overdoing it. It doesn't take hardly anything.

If you want to use FilmGuard to stop the shedding, but use PTRs to clean with, only wipe FG lightly on the edge of the roll and you will be fine.

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Jeff Taylor
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 601
From: Chatham, NJ/East Hampton, NY
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 03-14-2002 07:43 AM      Profile for Jeff Taylor   Email Jeff Taylor   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
For those who do want to apply Film-Guard, or any other type of cleaner, by hand pick up a sleeve of Webril Wipes. They're a 2" x 2" double cotton pad which comes in sleeves of 100 and are widely used in the printing and graphics arts industries (I get mine from a buddy who owns a string of little newspapers). All the usual cautions about turning the pad frequently apply, but they're so cheap you can chuck them at will. As Brad says, no matter how sparing you are with the application, you will undoubtedly get too much Film-Guard on the print, but I honestly haven't had any ill effects.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 03-14-2002 07:53 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Webril Wipes:
http://www.artstuff.net/webril_wipes_and_pads.htm
http://www.misterart.com/store/view.cfm?store=001&group_id=1540
http://www.cartersongraphics.com/cargs/webrilwipes.htm

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 03-14-2002 08:23 AM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'll vouch for webril wipes. I used to use those and kim-wipes in the darkroom extensively. Webril wipes might leave one or two strands of lint because of the wear against the perfs, but they are better at not leaving lint than almost anything else, with the possible exception of a woven filament style cloth or a brand new moistened Kodak sponge. Now where is thant link to Kodak darkroom sponges.?.?.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7142
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 03-14-2002 09:38 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I haven't come across Webril Wipes in this part of the world. For applying Filmguard by hand I use Selvyt (i.e. lint-free) cotton cloths. They're very effective at picking up dirt and can be machine-washed when soiled. Selvyts are available from Philip Rigby (tel. 020 8883 3703) or Jack Roe.

For treating worn-out 16mm viewing copies a Selvyt sprayed very lightly with Filmguard can work wonders.


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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 03-14-2002 09:40 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How about the KODAK Photo Chamois?:
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/fullerphoto/kod431005.html

Viscous sponges and photo chamois are usually stocked by professional photo dealers who carry darkroom equipment.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 03-14-2002 09:49 AM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That photo chamois could work in this situation. I preferred the sponges for darkroom work. The chamois would load up with water too quickly and be harder to wring out. I was also concerned with the possibility of chemicals remaining in the chamois if it got contaminated. Sponges didn't last as long, but they went from negative wiping, to tray & equipment cleaning, to general cleanup before getting tossed.


The webril wipes still sounds like a good way to go. I think there should be enough control by sqeeze pressure to vary the amount of fg applied.

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Jeff Taylor
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 601
From: Chatham, NJ/East Hampton, NY
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 03-14-2002 10:06 AM      Profile for Jeff Taylor   Email Jeff Taylor   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In response to Jerry's comment about the potential for lint using the Webril Wipes, I haven't found lint "hairs" per se to be a problem. What can happen, though, if you use a pad to the point where it shows actual abrasion and wear a thick cement splice or a torn sprocket can pick up a small tuft of the material. The remedy is simple, though. Aside from using tape splices and repairing or notching torn perfs just throw the pad away before it starts to show wear. Using both sides of the 4" x 4" pad (sorry, in mistakently put 2 x 2 in my earlier post), and then opening the fold and reversing it you effectively get 4 surfaces, and that should be pleanty for a full feature application. Afterwards, you can still use it for cleaning the gate and general projector "hygene". As a collector, I look to Film-Guard for its wet-gating properties on well used prints as much as I do for it's cleaning properties, so applying a bit more than actually recommended isn't a problem to me.

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Chris Hipp
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1462
From: Mesquite, Tx (east of Dallas)
Registered: Jul 2003


 - posted 01-25-2004 01:40 AM      Profile for Chris Hipp   Email Chris Hipp   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have quite a few scratched instituational trailers and I decided to experiment today. Since it was clear to me that the cleaners would not apply enough FG to hide the scratches so I tried by hand.

I just got a couple Accuwipes, folded them in half and soaked them in FG. Then I put the trailers on a reel and rewound them holding the accuwipe to the film. I did two passes wet and then one dry accuwipe. The film was completely covered in FG and when I ran it on screen there were no scratches and very little dirt.

If it can save even ten of these trailer it will save me a lot of money.

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System Notices
Forum Watchdog / Soup Nazi

Posts: 215

Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 09-16-2008 05:54 PM      Profile for System Notices         Edit/Delete Post 

It has been 1696 days since the last post.


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Richard Curtis
Film Handler

Posts: 7
From: Liverpool, Merseyside, UK
Registered: Aug 2008


 - posted 09-16-2008 05:54 PM      Profile for Richard Curtis   Author's Homepage   Email Richard Curtis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I was showing 'The Edge of Love' this evening, and whilst inspecting the other day had noticed some marking on one of the reels, so used it as an opportunity to try FilmGuard.

I applied it whilst rewinding the film at about 2x projection speed on our tower - simply got one 10" Selvyt cloth and gave it about 8 sprays, then used this for half the film (three reels).

I'm not 100% of the effects of FilmGuard on the markings, because I only have the facility to show the print to the audience, but I think our sponsor's trailer looked better than usual, and I'm sure FG helped remove traces of other people's chinagraph, fingerprints etc.
The cloth was pretty dirty by the end of the operation!

The one thing I don't know for sure is whether my 'dosage' was right - when breaking down, reels 6 and 3 were definitely still wet, with the others looking clean, but dry. From all the posts and literature available here, I get the impression that the print should *look* wet, but should that be 'wet to the touch', or just 'glossy'?

On a side note, does anyone pop a note in the shipping case to the effect that FilmGuard has been used on a print? I think I will - seems sensible to save someone who doesnt know about FG getting unnecessarily concerned by what looks like a wet film... :-)

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