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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Focusing trouble. (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Focusing trouble.
David Whitbeck
Film Handler

Posts: 70
From: Tempe, AZ
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 02-20-2002 04:22 PM      Profile for David Whitbeck   Email David Whitbeck   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My problem here is that whenever running a flat print, I can get it crisply focused in the middle but then as you look farther and farther towards the sides, it gets more and more out of focus. So I adjust the focus so the sides are crisp but then the middle is quite out of focus. I've compromised between the two, but I'm not getting near the quality that I could be. The trap and the gate are kept clean so there is no build up in that area. Could it be the gate tension? It's a Simplex 35 and the gate tension is on the 3rd notch due to the continuing deterioration of the the intermittent and the fact that the gate starts making noises and the pads start moving a lot if I turn it down any. Maybe somebody put the lense together wrong? I don't know. Thanks for any help you can offer.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 02-20-2002 04:39 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Check your xenon lamp alignment. The lamp may be out of focus. Also, check to see if the mirror coating has not flaked off, or the dichloric coating on the filters are not flaking away if you are using them.

Also, inspect your film trap to make sure the pressure pads are clean, as well as the rails. Check the gate alignment, as well as the film lateral guide. It could be pinching your film excessively.

Hope this helps....

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Jonas Heijkenskjold
Film Handler

Posts: 14
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Registered: Dec 2001


 - posted 02-20-2002 04:50 PM      Profile for Jonas Heijkenskjold   Email Jonas Heijkenskjold   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Couldnīt that be a heat problem? Are you using hot or cold light mirror? Heat filter in lamp house? If the exposed film gets hot it can curve in the middle and get out of focus.

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David Whitbeck
Film Handler

Posts: 70
From: Tempe, AZ
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 02-20-2002 05:02 PM      Profile for David Whitbeck   Email David Whitbeck   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
But if any of these things were the problem, wouldn't I have the same focusing problems with scope movies? Although, our screen is a flat ratio so I may not be able to see that the scope is having the same problem. Still, I haven't seen anything even close with the scope.

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Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 02-20-2002 05:03 PM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Flat screen or curved? Angle of projection? Lens mfg.? Focal length? f number? Does it happen on just one print or on any print?

Paul has the good suggestions on what to check first.

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 02-20-2002 05:47 PM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Check your lens elements. Make sure they are not loose. Sometimes a loose lens element, if loose enough will cause a focus problem. A note on that tension knob for the preasure straps. You may want to get new straps and replace them. It is better to run that preasure down near 1 or 2 and still obtain a steady picture. Running 3 is ok but anything above that is a sign that the straps are wearing thin and could snap at some point during a show.

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Darren Briggs
Master Film Handler

Posts: 371
From: York, UK
Registered: Dec 2001


 - posted 02-20-2002 05:52 PM      Profile for Darren Briggs   Author's Homepage   Email Darren Briggs   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Have you tried another lens from another screen??

I had the same sort of problem at a cinema I service on there Scope picture. It was the scope backing lens which caused the problem.It was ok for the first 3 mins then went right out, By shutting the lamphouse douser a touch and limiting the light it focused fine.
A new les cured the problem.

Darren


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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 02-20-2002 05:57 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
This really sounds to me like a xenon that has been focused down too tightly and there is excess heat in the center of the film. Do you notice the focusing gets worse during end credits where there is white text over a black background? If so, then this is definitely heat related.

The reason you are not seeing it so much on scope movies is because flat movies require more of a blowup, due to the smaller surface area of film in the aperture. If this screen has common width masking like most stadium seating theaters have, then this is greatly exaggerated.

As always, we need to know more than the info you have given us. Otherwise we're all just taking stabs at the situation without really knowing the specifics. Post again and this time make sure you tell us:
Make and model of lamphouse
Wattage of xenon bulb in lamphouse
Is there a heat filter between the lamphouse and the projector?
What kind of lenses are you using?
Is this a common height masking setup or a common width masking setup?
Curved screen or flat screen?
Screen brand and surface type (if you know).

That'll help us.


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David Whitbeck
Film Handler

Posts: 70
From: Tempe, AZ
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 02-20-2002 06:22 PM      Profile for David Whitbeck   Email David Whitbeck   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The lamp house is a Cinema Film Systems SX2000 with a 2000 watt bulb. The lense is a Super Sankor 2.5 inch F 1.9. The screen is flat and has no masking, it's ratio is about 1.85:1. There is no filter in between the lamphouse and projector. I can't tell you anything more about the screen. Sorry for the lack of info, I was at school when I posted.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 02-20-2002 06:59 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
By the way, did this problem happen all at once over the last several days? Or, has it been a nagging problem from day one?

In addition to what Brad mentioned, the primary lense being used with the scope attachment might be a slower lense. That gives a better focus field. What is the f-stop in the scope primary?

I think the xenon is out of alignment. By the way, what is your Xenon current? Are you over-driving the bulb and it is getting too hot? Also check your stack blower. Without proper xenon venting, things are going to get hotter than hell. If your aperature plate it "too hot to handle", then you definately have a lamphouse associated problem in one area or another.


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Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 02-20-2002 10:08 PM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
IF what you said about being able to get the center into crisp focus is an accurate description, and IF there is no characteristic buckling of the print from overheating, then my bet is that something is wrong with the lens.

If there were overheating occurring because of your reflector being mis-aligned, the film would "pop" in the gate and part of the time the center would be in focus, and part of the time it would be out of focus. That could make getting a crisp center difficult (not impossible, but difficult unless the deformation occurred very late in the open shutter cycle).

There should be a pic around here somewhere of a film with heat damage. I'm guessing you would notice it right off if you were having focus problems.

The flat screen rules out curvature problems.

With this guess and a buck, you might get a cheap cup of coffee.
Can you get a loaner or replacement lens in for comparison?

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Stan Gunn
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 176
From: Clematis, in the hills near Melbourne Australia
Registered: Aug 2000


 - posted 02-21-2002 01:00 AM      Profile for Stan Gunn   Author's Homepage   Email Stan Gunn   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It appears to be a lense problem called spherical abberishion (sorry about the spelling) this is found a lot with cheap16mm lenses,but I have seen it with a lot of 35mm lenses also.
The only way to fix it is a new lense, given the focal lengh of the lense I assume that you have a short throw and a large screen size.
With the lense type you have, I am certain a better lense will cure your problem.

------------------
KALEE FOREVER. CARBON ARC, THE ONLY LIGHT FOR THE STARS!
ALL PARTS FOR VICTOR AND KALART VICTOR 16MM PROJECTORS.SERVICE TO 35 AND 16MM PROJECTION EQUIPMENT.
35MM sprockets made to order.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 02-21-2002 08:30 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here are my articles on heat-related problems:
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/newsletters/reel/fall97/pytlak.shtml
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/newsletters/reel/winter97/projection.shtml

In general, use the lowest gate tension possible that still gives a steady image.

Very short focal length lenses have much shallower depth of focus.

Both Isco and Schneider have done much work in the last 20 years to optimize lens designs to achieve uniform focus across the screen. This work has been recogized by the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences with multiple awards.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 585-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 585-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-21-2002 08:48 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Number one problem is probably the Sankor lens

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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 02-21-2002 12:46 PM      Profile for Pete Naples   Email Pete Naples   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm with the lens too! If the trap was out of kilter and buckling the film you'd see it on 'scope too. I've replaced loads of those old Sankor lenses, and the customer comment is always that the picture is loads sharper, brighter, and is a few cases that it's lost the green tint it's had for years!

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