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This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: Early cinema automation
James Robertson
Film Handler

Posts: 40
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: May 2001


 - posted 02-01-2002 04:32 AM      Profile for James Robertson   Email James Robertson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How far back do cinema automation systems go?

I was using one in 1957. It was called Projectomatic and was installed at the Cosmo,Glasgow {first cinema in Scotland to have it installed) The Cosmo is still operating by the way and hopefully someone is using the Projectomatic control unit as a boat anchor

Basically it consisted of a series of relays across all presentation functions i.e. lights,curtains,masking, non-sync,etc. and a rotating drum in the control unit would have pins placed in slots in the drum. Each slot represented one of the various functions e.g. a pin in slot 8 would trip relay to bring up footlights, slot 9 curtains and so on. The drum rotation was initiated by pulses from pick-off roller in projector just before hold back sprocket(foil tape stuck on film edge triggered the pulses) or on start of show by a clockwork timer(really primitive) We used to bypass the timer and start show manually which sort of defeats the whole purpose of the exercise

Changeovers were initiated by pulses received from the pick-off roller, again triggerd by foil tape placed on film edge. Xenon lamps were rare beasts then and the arc lamp was struck when a metal pellet placed between positive and negative carbons fused on incoming projector motor startup.

This meant that the arc had 7 secs to stabilize before changeover.
Even using Peerless Magnarcs this was a big ask and the light on screen was usually wobbly for a few seconds after changeover.

The funny thing about this installation is that it was never intended to replace staff- as far as I can make out it was a whim of the cinema owner. It didn't do what we projectionists couldn't do better and more smoothly.

Anyway the Chief at the time who had always presided over a booth providing first class presentation was so pissed off by this intrusion that he resigned and left the industry entirely:

This was 1957. Any earlier automation?

Jim

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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 02-01-2002 04:50 AM      Profile for Pete Naples   Email Pete Naples   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Projectomatic was also kown as Esseldomatic and later, Cinemation if I remember right. They were all made by Bernard Bentley. I had Cinemation at the Orient Express, Dunfermline., although there are a fair number of Cinemation MkIV and Mk10T still clunking away. These things were quite amazing for their time, and in many ways still are.

I've never used one to strike a carbon arc, as the strontium ( I think! ) pellets that you were supposed to put between the carbons would vaporise and somewhat shorten the life of the mirror.

Where is the Cosmo in Glasgow? Is it now known by another name? It's just I've never come across that one in my travels!

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Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 02-01-2002 06:51 AM      Profile for Richard Fowler   Email Richard Fowler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Powers projector company advertised in the late 1920,s that
they had available an automated changeover system which was
triggered by a film notch and used a clock type mechanism
to trigger functions. The ads displayed the projectionist
sitting watching the show in a tuxedo since he had more time
to insure quality presentation.....like any factory announcement
it may have been vaporware...........
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com

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Larry Shaw
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 238
From: Boston, MA, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 02-01-2002 08:54 AM      Profile for Larry Shaw   Author's Homepage   Email Larry Shaw   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Pete,
I never had luck with the pellets anyway in the Peerless Magnarcs I was running at the time: not enough current. They just fizzled.

I ran another pair of Magnarcs equipped with a rotary solonoid operated mechanical arc striker made by Raven Labs in New Jersey. That simple device worked flawlessly.

But by then the march to xenon had begun.

------------------
Larry Shaw
Boston Light & Sound, Inc.
North American Distributor of Kinoton GmbH
290 North Beacon Street
Boston, MA 02135-1990
Tel: 617-787-3131 x104 Fax: 617-787-4257
E-Mail: larry@blsi.com
Web site: http://www.blsi.com/kinoton

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Bernard Tonks
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 619
From: Cranleigh, Surrey, England
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 02-01-2002 10:18 AM      Profile for Bernard Tonks   Email Bernard Tonks   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Only a couple of weeks ago I had Mr Cinemation himself, Bernard Bentley visit me at the Regal. He is very well at 79 years of age and has definitely retired now, Cinemation 2005 now installed in many cinemas being his last design project.

Picture of Projectomatic at the Granada Rugby 1960. (kindly supplied by Harry Rigby)



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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 02-01-2002 10:46 AM      Profile for Pete Naples   Email Pete Naples   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bernard!!

Thank you, you've just answered a question I am continually being asked, is BB still around and how is he?!!

If you happen to see him or speak with him again soon, give him my best wishes and also those of the crew from the Dominion, Edinburgh.

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Colin Wiseley
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 123
From: Blacksburg, VA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 02-01-2002 01:10 PM      Profile for Colin Wiseley   Email Colin Wiseley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We use a Purdue automation that was made locally in Roanoke VA although I don't know how old it is. It's similar to the rotating drum automation mentioned above except it uses a rotating shaft with plastic discs which have notches in them that trip switches to turn on the projector and the curtains and so forth. It's also triggered using copper tape.

Curiously, when I first started working at the theater it only had the ability to turn everything on at the start of the show and then turn everything off at the end. There was no way to get it to turn the house lights up at the credits and then turn everything off at the end. As a result, I had to get out my trusty Dremel tool and cut new notches into the discs to get it to turn on the house lights but still keep everything else going until it's triggered again at the end of the film. Now it works like a charm.

------------------
Colin Wiseley
Lyric Theatre
Blacksburg, VA
www.thelyric.com


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Bernard Tonks
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 619
From: Cranleigh, Surrey, England
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 02-01-2002 02:29 PM      Profile for Bernard Tonks   Email Bernard Tonks   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Pete,

I will be in touch with Bernard Bentley next week; I will give him a copy of your posting! I know he will be pleased with your messages. I should have mentioned that his lovely wife Annette also visited, she is 81 and was a projectionist in the early years. There must be something in those diodes; they both look so well and active.

Jim,

There was also Projectomatic model ‘0’ that just did changeovers!


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Joseph Pandolfi
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 213
From: Milford, CT.
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 02-01-2002 06:15 PM      Profile for Joseph Pandolfi   Email Joseph Pandolfi   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
At our Milford theatre, we have four Cinemation Mark IV still in use here. We had them all modified for interlocking and fire alarm shutdowns. If you want to these things can start your coffee for you when you come in the morning. Ours is set up, even though we don't dare to use it, start the first show the next day and we would come in late. I believe they have been here since the theatre was built in the early 1960's.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-01-2002 10:26 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well let Mr Bentley know there are still many Mk4's still in use across the pond in Canada.
As note about starting coffee makers
There was a theatre in Ottawa Ont. Canada that open that was leeked into the newspapers that the cinemation was so advanced that it would flush the urinals at the end of the intermission

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James Robertson
Film Handler

Posts: 40
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: May 2001


 - posted 02-01-2002 11:52 PM      Profile for James Robertson   Email James Robertson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Pete

Never had any problems with pellets striking arc-we were running 60 amps.
Incidentally Westrex were the agents for Projectomatic at that time.

The Cosmo is/was in Rose St off Sauchiehall St. and was still there about 5 years ago.

It is/was a magnificent repertory cinema and the owner's criterion was "the best films from any source" and I screened many classic films there.


Bernard,

Are those FP7's in your picture of Granada,Rugby


Jim

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Bernard Tonks
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 619
From: Cranleigh, Surrey, England
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 02-02-2002 05:16 AM      Profile for Bernard Tonks   Email Bernard Tonks   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes Jim, the projectors are Philips FP 7s. The Granada, Kingston-upon-Thames was equipped exactly the same as the Rugby cinema where I saw them running, so quiet you could hardly hear them, in fact you heard the Peerless Magnarc feed motor more than the projector.

Picture of an early Cinemation console in Odeon 1 Leeds, Bradford (now closed) – dating from the 1970s, long disued. (picture kindly supplied by Harry Rigby).


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Joseph Pandolfi
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 213
From: Milford, CT.
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 02-02-2002 06:57 AM      Profile for Joseph Pandolfi   Email Joseph Pandolfi   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There is a shot of one in the PICTURES Section, GCC Northpark West 1 & 2 and it is the eighth one down.

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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 02-02-2002 07:20 AM      Profile for Pete Naples   Email Pete Naples   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
James, sorry to say I don't think the Cosmo is still operating, unless it's become the 'Bombay', which shows Bollywood stuff. I don't know Glasgows geography too well though. There are few 'real' cinemas left in Glasgow now, the Grosvenor in Hillhead is still open, due for major refurbishment soon, the Glasgow Film Theatre has had some major work in the last few years. Other then the Bombay and the Renfield Street Odeon, the rest are all modern neon and plastic affairs. The Salon, Hillhead closed as a cinema, but is open again as a restaurant. Some of my colleagues are former Westrex engineers, and worked with BB when Cinemation MkIV was new.

Bernard, I'd be astounded if BB remembers me, I met him in the dark days of Caledonian Associated Cinems, when I was nowt but a lad! Danny Cattigan is still around though, he was CAC's engineer, so BB will have a better chance of remembering him. It's great to know that he's well and enjoying retirement.


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Les Brock
Film Handler

Posts: 42
From: Basingstoke, Hamshire, UK
Registered: Nov 2001


 - posted 02-02-2002 08:23 AM      Profile for Les Brock   Author's Homepage   Email Les Brock   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I worked with Projectomatic at the Granada Harrow ( was Chief Projectionist from 1974 to 1979). We had the change over-version model "O" and it was connected up to a pair of Cinemeccanica Vic 8's when our reliable and trustworthy Phillips FP 7's were retired in 1972.

Bernard Bentley came along with Roger Purle and connected up to the Vic 8's and also converted our Peerless Arcs to Xenon.

Sadly we lost the 4 Track mag system with the FP 7's and had the Cinemeccanica T12 system installed but no Penthouses on the projectors.

Somewhere I have some pics of the projectors old and new. Must try to find them and post them.

I left Granada Harrow in 1979, by then the cinema had been tripled but the Projectomatic was still working. The only problem was the safety shutters on the Vic 8's. The solenoids were always burning out as the relays never seemed to release early enough and the solenoids fried !

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