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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » The credibility of THX certification. (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: The credibility of THX certification.
Patrik Becker
Film Handler

Posts: 5
From: Stockholm, Sweden.
Registered: Jul 2001


 - posted 01-12-2002 05:50 PM      Profile for Patrik Becker   Author's Homepage   Email Patrik Becker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
THX have done much for the cinemas. When THX was first introduced it gave the visitor a possibility to find the cinemas with the highest standards.

What credibility does THX have as a brand when the chain of cinemas have their own THX certified technician employed?

The reason for me asking this is that I think that THX has lost it credibility when no independent person is controlling the quality on a regular basis.
It seems as though when getting a cinema THX certified, the quest to withhold and increase the quality of the cinema is brought to a standstill by the owner.

How do you feel about the system with THX certifiers employed at the chain of cinemas?
Wouldn’t it be preferable if an independent person from THX together with the local technician would check the quality of the set-up and come to an agreement with the management how to update and maintain the system to be able to keep the THX certification. This to prevent an internal conflict between the management and the local technician.

Even if a cinema is well equipped it all comes down to the projectionist to keep the presentation at the promised level of quality. It is important to maintain a high and good standard of the projectionist considering that he or she becomes more and more of a technical engineer for the cinema.

BTW, is it by any chance possible to THX certify scriptwriters to keep them from making bad sequels?

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 01-12-2002 07:42 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
I think letting chain theater techs re-certify their own THX screens is hurting THX's reputation in terms of quality standards with cinema sound systems. (Sorry Ted) Horrible and unexcusable problems such as blown drivers, severe AC vent rattling, dead amplifiers and godawful EQing never happened before Lucasfilm allowed chain techs to certify their own company's installations. The bottom line is that the corporate people don't want to spend any money to repair or upgrade what needs to be done in order to keep the presentation top notch, so the chain techs falsify the information on their re-certifications so they will appear to pass with flying colors. Yes this does happen, and from what I've seen it happens too frequently.


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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 01-12-2002 08:39 PM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, Brad is correct. When THX stopped sending out their own people to check the systems things started happening to discise a re-sertification. Things like shutting off the ac and exhaust blowers on the roof so the room acustics would pass. I am glad we no longer have to put up with the big gimmick of THX. Good in the 80's and early 90's. But now it has become a joke to spend that much money on something that there own people do not come out and check. Plus you can achieve great quality in well designed theaters with out the need for that crossover box.

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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 01-12-2002 09:30 PM      Profile for Pete Naples   Email Pete Naples   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In so called 'THX' theatres, I have come across such things as loudspeakers wired out of phase, hum problems and lenses being entirely the wrong focal length. Makes you wander what these guys actually do?

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-12-2002 10:11 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The THX booth monitor is the best that I have used. Whether a good booth monitor is worth the cost of THX certification is a different issue.

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 01-12-2002 11:57 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We've discussed this before... My own feeling is: It is better to have THX around than not. Since you must submit your architect's theater plans before construction, at least there was *some* quality control while the theater was designed and constructed.

THe THX monitor is good, but I feel the setup software (DOS only) is "not finished." Yes, it does the job, but for being a state of the art peice of equipment, the software is lacking. The R2 unit was the same; A good unit, but (again) the software was not finished. It's better now, but still a little rough around the edges.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 01-13-2002 12:10 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As to the THX D-1138 monitor/crossover...I feel the comments on the software are unwaranted. Since THX can decide just what equipment it will support in the way of speakers (must be submitted and pass their criteria), the software is more than adequate and not encouraged to be used by anyone but themselves. There shouldn't be any need for tweeking. Once a mode number is assigned to a speaker system, the parameters can be locked in. The fact the software will let one fiddle a bit is actually surprising. Where I have installed the D1138, I have been quite pleased with the results.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 01-13-2002 07:49 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Perhaps THX could make their software compatible with more OS's. Like:

Windows 2000 (Full 32-bit version, not just DOS)
Mac OS 9
Mac OS X
Be OS
Linux
Solaris
NeXTstep
Windows CE
and of course Apple ][e

My point is this: Why live with software that only runs on ancient operating systems?

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 01-13-2002 08:59 AM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
Because the ancient operating systems are reliable. Do you really want to trust your THX setup to Microsoft?

Although, it would be cool to do it from a Palm Pilot, or maybe a Commodore 64.


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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-13-2002 09:32 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joe,
You would be surprised to know that most of the world runs on DOS. Windows and other OS's account for a far smaller number than does DOS. Almost all industrial computers are DOS based. DOS is extremely reliable and ultra stable, easy to learn, and far more easy to adapt to a given job than any other system.......

Adam, I think we have been trusting Microsoft with our THX systems since the begginning. DOS is a microsoft product, thats how they started in buisness. Almost all large light boards run on DOS as well. Microsoft however did not develop it, they bought the system. You can run an R-2 from a pocket HP computer. Gord and I both carry one as backup to our main laptops. When you travel great distances it pays to ahve it available.
Mark @ GTS


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Don Sneed
Master Film Handler

Posts: 451
From: Texas City, TX, USA
Registered: Aug 2001


 - posted 01-13-2002 10:40 AM      Profile for Don Sneed   Author's Homepage   Email Don Sneed   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I way I feel about the re-cert is the theatres is paying good money for this service, I treat my re-cert as though I work for THX (inwhich I don't), the customers expect a THX theatre, so give it to them, I had a couple of theatres that did not pass the AC NC-30 test, I could have easly alter the test to pass but I did not, if the theatre has a problem, FIX it !! I have found the high freq. was not aim correctly, I will re-aim the speaker to get the result need for even coverage, my last theatre install in December, the speakers in the THX house had a db reading from the front row seating to the rear seating of 8db diffence, it took all day to get right but we ended up with a 4db diffence on all front channel speakers in a 5-channel front screen speakers (Sony house), much moving & tilting the speakers to get this result in a 600 seat house...this was the best we can do, we had even coverage thoughout the seating area....what THX should do is do a surprise check at random to see if the in house techs is doing the job correctly, if not than take away their re-cert..I say do it right or don't do it at all, I once had a faint nosie in a aud. by ear the noise was so faint you had to really listen for the noise, but the mics picked it up, it took a while but we found the source & corrected it, again I could have alter the test, but I was there to test & correct the problem not to alter, either do it as design or don't do it at all, the theatre pay good money for a perfect theatre, then give them a perfect theatre, what ever it takes to get it....there's my two cents worth of information !!

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 01-13-2002 02:52 PM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My word for International THX certification.

Sure, THX theater are, at least, well equipped since the project of the theater is checked by THX engeneers.
However, I went to few THX theaters in Italy and all were not so good.
A theater of my chain is THX certified. Since 3 years and half, we NEVER had a THX tech to check something. So why have to pay the certification fee?
I think (At least in Italy) that a good theater can be done without any THX logo.

If THX will continue with this way of business, THX theater will soon became just "normal" theater and THX logo will soon loose any value.
I'm sorry, because I will always remember my first THX experience: was my first real "Theater" experience.

Bye
Antonio

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-13-2002 03:08 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I once had two houses that read NC38 which is pretty bad. The HVAC contractor aparently forgot to isolate the roof units and even thuogh they were over the booth they still transmitted alot of noise back into the auditoriums. To solve this problem a custom acoustical inverse feedback system was installed in each HVAC system that was affected. This literally cancled out the noise and got it down to about NC26 which was really good. Can't remember the name of this system but it was made in Madison, WI and really worked. I guess it saved the HVAC contractors rear end at this site!
Mark @ GTS

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 01-13-2002 03:58 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The fact that the monitor software runs on DOS doesn't bother me.. DOS is quite reliable (I think UNIX still tops that list, though.)

But whatever it is, it should be the same. I feel that most non-professional computer users use Win95 or 98, and that's what I feel all setup software should run on. People just want to get their job done without having to learn how to use the operating system too.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 01-14-2002 02:17 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My two euros' worth on this is that the benefits of THX are more in the design consultancy than in the recertification. All the THX houses I've visited have had reasonable sightlines even from the last seats to be sold (e.g. right at the front and to one side) and the dialogue has always been intelligible, which is more than can be said for many other auditoria, especially the hastily converted 1970s 'twins' and 'triples' of the town centre cinemas over here. So I'd say that their design people tend to get it right.

However the annual 'inspection', IMHO, is more a marketing exercise than a serious attempt to enforce standards. In the one inspection process I ever witnessed, the inspector was purely concerned with the sound setup and didn't even look at a picture on the screen at any point during the inspection! I was told by front-of-house staff that he did sit in on the last reel of the last film of the evening before he started on the inspection, but even so he would only have seen one projector working in one ratio. I know of other venues where annual reinspections have been late, not happened at all or have been undertaken by a company's own engineer. This could well be because of the logistical problems of getting inspectors over from the US, but I think it would be fair to say that as a general rule, 'THX' guarantees a well-designed auditorium but not picture or sound quality.

In terms of what it actually assesses, Kodak Screencheck strikes me as being a far more rounded set of tests to actually determine the overall quality of presentation, though I was not given confidence when I once got sent an advertising brochure for this programme which included a photo of an inspector gazing into an open lamphouse without wearing a safety visor.


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