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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Christie strikes again! (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Christie strikes again!
Heyward Garner
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 101
From: Winston-Salem, NC, USA
Registered: Jan 2001


 - posted 01-12-2002 03:38 AM      Profile for Heyward Garner   Email Heyward Garner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Guys and gals... I'm having a serious problem with one machine scratching my prints. =( I can come to no conclusion as to why. My first reaction was to blame myself, operator error. It happens sometimes... The print was Not Another Teen Movie showing on projector # 11. Well damn, it's a shame it *had* to be Teen Movie, but oh well... Next week Teen Movie is replaced in house 11 by Vanilla Sky. The FIRST DAY it's on that machine, it is scratched... Hmmmmmmmmmmm... Well shit, someone else worked that day, but just to cover their butt I stripped the machine top to bottom, and found absolutely nothing wrong with it (except for the fact that it's made by Christie...) So that was a no save, blamed operator... I would have left it at that, except then on the DAY we opened Imposter (had been very clean screening night before) IT WAS SCRATCHED. I found the machine to be in good alignment, clean... Found no burrs or odd, out-of-place fragments of anything... Nothing from the platters (brain had already been changed, so that was not likely cause either) or the projectors... DAMMIT! This is the only machine I have doing this right now, but why? Every other time a print has been scratched in my booth, it has an extremely likely, gay Christie reason behind it. This one does not, that I am aware of... Help?

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 01-12-2002 03:47 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Ok, you've established that your prints are getting scratched, but you have not told us one single thing about the scratches. You MUST be extremely descriptive of the scratches if you want anyone here to be able to assist with finding a cure for the problem.

Make sure to also tell us what kind of platters you are using as well as the make of failsafe.


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Jim Ziegler
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 753
From: West Hollywood, CA
Registered: Jul 99


 - posted 01-12-2002 04:25 AM      Profile for Jim Ziegler   Email Jim Ziegler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have had odd base side scratches (multiple scratches, but very faint) on the non-soundtrack side of the film for an undetermined reason before. For a while, that one machine was scratching every third print played in there. We never did figure out what was causing the scratches, three seprate engineers were unable to explain it, but the problem went away about a year ago for no apparent reason...

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 01-12-2002 08:57 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There are two screws inside the gate/trap area that can come loose and rub against the film if you are not careful. I believe that there is one below the aperture (they are located on the swinging part of the mechanism). Make sure that those are super tight. I Loc-Tighted mine down in every projector. I found that they could become loose over time but I only saw that happen in 3 of my projectors. That's one possible cause. The other is the screw in the intermittent shoe. Is it "too tight" where the screw passes far enough in to touch the film as it runs through? It does not need to be that tight. Run some test loops and loosen it a bit until the scratch does not appear on virgin film.

Also, do you have Dolby Digital with a Cat 700 penthouse reader in that auditorium? If so, make sure it is threaded correctly. If it is threaded too loosely and the film is rubbing against iself before and after it passes the flywheel you will get scratching.


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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 01-12-2002 09:03 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If you are positive it is happening in the projector....make up a loop and take a RED Marks-A-Lot and put a good and heavy coat where the film is being scratched on a clean piece of film (or even a scratched piece) and then run the loop without dragging it anywhere....after several passes...stop it and look for the red powder...it should point to the culprit.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 01-12-2002 09:06 AM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So you say that the screening of Imposter was a clean screening. Did you notice the scratches on the first show the next day. If so I would eliminate anything prior to the gate on the proj. as the cause. If the scratches are horizontal, make sure that the film is not riding low on the return to the platter deck. Dont want the picture touching the deck surface. Make sure that the sound drum is turning freely and not dragging. Check for burs or obstructions in the gate and apeture area. If all your equipment is the same in your booth and you only scratch films on this machine. Then most likely it is the equipments fault of some sort not threading errors.

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Jim Ziegler
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 753
From: West Hollywood, CA
Registered: Jul 99


 - posted 01-12-2002 02:58 PM      Profile for Jim Ziegler   Email Jim Ziegler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This house had a basement reader. In trying to isolate this problem, we replaced all the pad rollers, the parts of the gate that made contact with the film, and, due to some unrelated sound problems, it got an entire new soundhead assembly. On screen, these scratches were all on the right side of the screen, and covered probably 5% of the screen, right on the masking.. And, to make it more wierd, it didn't happen to every print..

But, like I said, it stopped doing it quite a while ago...

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Heyward Garner
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 101
From: Winston-Salem, NC, USA
Registered: Jan 2001


 - posted 01-18-2002 12:27 AM      Profile for Heyward Garner   Email Heyward Garner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad, my mistake...
Horizontal emulsion scratches, just off-center, pulsing up the picture. Platters are Strong, failsafe is magnetic inboards/outboard Speco. Joe, did not have a problem with screws on either the gate or the intermittent. Sound format is dts, so no Cat. 700 on this machine... I have to find time to get some test loops into the machine. I have yet to discover if problem is still occuring b/c I still have one of our scratched prints playing in the house. I get to be at work bright and early tomorrow (today) though, so should be able to find a few minutes to string a loop and see what happens... Darryl, I did not run the first set of shows the opening day, so I cannot say. I noticed it at our 7:00 show that day... Thanks everyone for your help, I'll get on it and see what I come up with. Thanks again.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 01-18-2002 12:34 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Ah, this one is too easy. Your projectionists are making their lower loops too big. Each machine is just a bit different and on some machines the lower loop will slap worse than others. The film is slapping up against the bottom side of the Ultramittent, thus causing your off center horizontal scratches that move up the image. It's operator error, not equipment error.

Christie sells "slap guards" that can be mounted on the underside of the Ultramittent, but the real problem is the way they are threading. Things like the "2 finger loop" do not apply with Christies. Check the "tips" section on "Threading 101" for exact descriptions and pictures of the size of that loop.


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Heyward Garner
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 101
From: Winston-Salem, NC, USA
Registered: Jan 2001


 - posted 01-18-2002 02:15 AM      Profile for Heyward Garner   Email Heyward Garner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks very much Brad, I did not wish to point blame, but I had turned a trainee loose for her first few solos... That's a good possibility. I am well aware that the two finger rule does not apply to Christie as it would something like Simplex... However, I would still wish to investigate for the following reasons: The person who did run the first daytime shows has worked with me for ages now, and does not have this problem, or at least highly unlike. No one is perfect, though. And also, why only on that machine, all of a sudden? You are quite correct Sir, in that every machine is a bit different, I have learned that lesson quite well over time with my machines. It just doesn't seem logical that it would be one machine, from an experienced operator... I am grateful for the tips and advice, and will further investigate to try and pinpoint the operator having trouble, or anything else out of place...

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 01-18-2002 02:27 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually I think the whole "2 finger rule" is the stupidest thing I've ever heard in a projection booth. NO two people's fingers are the same size! Thus, no two people's "two finger loops" will be the same size. It's just plain stupid and I wish the geezers who keep teaching that would wake up from their coma.

I've worked a few different all Christie booths and in every instance there is always one or two projectors in the complex where the loop slaps around abnormally as compared to the rest of the machines in the complex. I am quite certain you have found your token machine in the building.

As to why "all of a sudden", it was most probably caused by your trainee. It only takes one run through the machine to make those marks.

You seriously might want to consider calling your dealer and ordering those Ultramittent slap guards and putting them on your projectors...or at least that particular one.


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Heyward Garner
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 101
From: Winston-Salem, NC, USA
Registered: Jan 2001


 - posted 01-18-2002 02:35 AM      Profile for Heyward Garner   Email Heyward Garner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad, I wouldn't trust a Christie product (a.k.a. Slapgaurd) any farther than I can throw the machine it's attached to... lol

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 01-18-2002 02:44 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
I wish I had a picture of these. Seriously, once you see them you will understand why they are such a great idea. No joke.

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Gerard S. Cohen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 975
From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 01-18-2002 04:12 PM      Profile for Gerard S. Cohen   Email Gerard S. Cohen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Horizontal scratches (not vertical, like "rain"), especially if curved, can be caused by feeding film from the makeup table to the platter from slightly below, so that it rubs against the rim of the platter. Thus negligence can ruin a print even before first run.


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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 01-18-2002 06:12 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
...and here is a picture!

The slap guards just mount right to the bottom of the Ultramittent. This way if the film starts slapping around, only the edges where the sprockets are will make contact.

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