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Author Topic: Please guys .... I really need help with this ....
Matt Close
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 226
From: Hervey Bay, QLD, Australia
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 01-07-2002 07:51 PM      Profile for Matt Close   Author's Homepage   Email Matt Close   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have a Century DAW 2 35mm projector that is running slow..... What actually governs the speed in a projector?

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Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 01-07-2002 07:56 PM      Profile for Josh Jones   Author's Homepage   Email Josh Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There is no speed governing device to my knowledge in a century, or any machine for that matter. the only device truely controlling the speed is the motor. do a little inspection. does the motor smell hot or particularly funky? if so it is probably on its way out. thats all I can think of. outside that you could have a line voltage droop that may cause a reduced operating speed. running motors undervoltoge will eventually destroy the rotor, as magnetic slip produces a lot of heat, eventually burning up the rotor, the windings, or both.

Josh

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 01-07-2002 08:01 PM      Profile for John Wilson   Email John Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Matt

Have you checked the tightness of the drive belts? Are they worn?
Is the slower speed something new or has it always done this. If it's always been that way then the drive pulley may be too small.

There are machines with variable speed modifications now.

Contact me offsite if you wish. My email's up top of this post.

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Matt Close
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 226
From: Hervey Bay, QLD, Australia
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 01-07-2002 08:04 PM      Profile for Matt Close   Author's Homepage   Email Matt Close   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Josh .... I didn't think (but wasn't sure) that there was anything that could govern the speed of a projector other than the motor, which to my knowledge is governed by frequency, rather than voltage... yes? I have actually already tried another old motor and it runs at the same slow speed
Of course, I could have two bad motors!! There doesn't seem to be any binding of gears or slipping of belts either ..... any other ideas? ... Anybody?

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Matt Close
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 226
From: Hervey Bay, QLD, Australia
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 01-07-2002 08:06 PM      Profile for Matt Close   Author's Homepage   Email Matt Close   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks John ..... But , no ... this is a brand new problem...... At least I have never noticed it before ....... I've cleaned at re-tensioned the drive belt, but alas ... all is still not well

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Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 01-07-2002 08:39 PM      Profile for Richard Fowler   Email Richard Fowler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is your model direct drive to the projection head or to the soundhead and then to the projector......I have seen rare instances on direct drive models where the gear on the main drive shaft was slipping on the drive shaft....I had one customer had this problem as the gear screws had become loose but bit enough to grab the shaft.....
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre and Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 01-07-2002 08:49 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You have a Century DAW...Standard Drive, double shutter with water cooling.

First off, how do you know you are running slow? Have you measured the speed? If so, this would help to determine just where the problem lies.

Do you have a poly-V belt system? If so is the belt properly seated? I've seen all too many poly-Vs that were not properly seated and caused a speed variation.

Next, do you have the proper pulley set for the line frequency and generation of equipment? That is, do you have an async motor or sync motor and could you possibly have sync pulleys running with an async motor? This would cause the projector to run slow.

Is the motor wired correctly, some motors can be wired for 120 or 230VAC...I have seen motors come straight from the factory wired for 230 for a 120volt market...As such sometimes the motors couldn't even overcome the static friction to start the projector all of the time.

Download the manual for the Century projector/soundheads, Strong has a list of the various pulleys.

For you to have changed the motor and still have the same problem starts to point to the pulley set and or belt position.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 01-07-2002 08:57 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would suspect there could be a problem with the drive or gear train. If you are using a Poly-V belt, it could be slipping without making any noise. I would recommend you roll the machine forward by hand, to make sure there is no binding or belt slippage.

A Century should roll through by hand with a light finger touch on the flywheel. If you really have to "get on it" to roll it through, then read below:

I have noted on many ocassions the bushings in the Century R-* soundheads have a tendency to freeze up (due to a lack of a drop of oil now and then), and that'll really bog things down! If you are using a notch timing belt, listen for it to jump cogs.

Of course, after things warm up, it might seem ok. And naturally, the exact opposite could happen.

The typical Repulsion-Induction motor speed is determined by the line frequency and the number of poles the motor has. So, I don't think it is a motor issue at all.

One other thing......Is there a ballast dog bone in series with the motor that is shunted by a relay after starting? Are you using a 3 phase or a single phase motor?

If you are using a capacitor start-capacitor run motor and the capacitors are located somewhere other than physically on the motor, you could change motors until you are blue in the face with no results. One of the capacitors (mostly the run capacitor) could be on the Fritz.


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Tom Fermanian
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 101
From: Sainte Adele, Quebec, Canada
Registered: Dec 2001


 - posted 01-07-2002 08:58 PM      Profile for Tom Fermanian   Email Tom Fermanian   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi,
Had a similar problem years ago, One of the Main fuses in the electrical Entrance had a problem, some spots in the building, we where mesuring the right current, some other area the curent was much lower, it was funny to see light bulbs dimmed whilst in the next room or section we had full brightness. Maybe,I said maybe, your section is not getting the right current, on the same circuit, are there any other electrical equipement,lights, maybe not running right ? If so maybe thats it, mesure your currents.

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Tom Fermanian
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 101
From: Sainte Adele, Quebec, Canada
Registered: Dec 2001


 - posted 01-07-2002 09:01 PM      Profile for Tom Fermanian   Email Tom Fermanian   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I forgot!,
Another situation, someone did an oil change in a projector, he added sound oil instead of projector oil Result: projector slowed up, almost binded! We found this out because the week-end man did the oil maintenance, the weekday guy was not told...

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Matt Close
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 226
From: Hervey Bay, QLD, Australia
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 01-07-2002 09:42 PM      Profile for Matt Close   Author's Homepage   Email Matt Close   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks everyone .... I think I will pursue a mechanical fault now, rather than a motor one. But, if anyone still wants to know, it is a single phase motor, capacitor inside, running 240volts/50Hz, 1450RPM.

Does anybody know exactly which manual to download for a Century
'DAW 2'? .... And if so, where from?

The reduction in speed is only minor ( I have compared it to other projectors, have only timed a trailer, will time a feature next) ..... a patron probably wouldn't notice it, but we all know how familiar you become with trailers or sections of a film, so I am sure I am not wrong about the speed problem... and the sessions are running over-time by several minutes

I have already spun the drive wheel by hand yesterday and today, and it spins quite freely with only a finger's touch... I can't feel any substantial resistance......

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 01-07-2002 10:02 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
1450 RPM? I think your problem was from day one. I think you might have an incorrect pully ratio. get a strobe light and check what speed you are actually running at, and check your other machine (if you have one) and see what it is doing.

Then take a long close look at your pulleys.


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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 01-07-2002 10:07 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Download the first Century manual in the Soundhead section of the "manuals " page here on film-tech. I believe it is 1999 printing which lists various pulleys for the various configurations.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-08-2002 04:54 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
1450 is the correct RPM for a non syncronous motor in 50 Hz locations

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 01-08-2002 06:38 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
oops.....


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