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Author Topic: Leaving the exciter on
Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 01-04-2002 08:05 PM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
For many types of bulbs, it is better to leave them on for longer than necessary rather than shut them on and off constantly. Less wear and tear. Is this true for exciter lamps? I am talking about actual white bulbs, not the LED's. Is there any reason I should not leave my exciters on all day and only turn them off when I shut down at night?

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Bob Healey
Film Handler

Posts: 93
From: Milford, CT
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 01-04-2002 08:54 PM      Profile for Bob Healey   Email Bob Healey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We run changeovers, and our exciter supply can only drive one lamp at a time, so everytime we swap projectors, one bulb is switched off, the other on. This is done internally in the power supply (Kelmar). In the year and 1/2 I've been there, haven't seen one changed, but then again, there are only about 24 operating hours/week there. No one else can remember the last time one was changed either.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-04-2002 09:46 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Interesting question.

Personally, I prefer to leave exciter lamps on whenever the theatre is open. My reasoning for this is failures usually occur when the lamps are first powered on and that I would rather not have one burn out right at show start or at a changeover. In practice, though, failures are pretty rare.

I don't like exciter-lamp changeover systems, either, since they have the additional problem of causing a second or so of silence at every c/o while the second lamp comes up to full brightness. I find this very noticeable and distracting (especially when combined with a 'pop' at every c/o, which seems to happen in way too many older theatres).

I'd be interested to hear if anyone has actually done any testing to prove one way or the other whether exciter life is reduced by repeated power-cycles during the course of a day.

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 01-04-2002 11:35 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Both the "silence at c/o" and the wear on bulbs can be reduced by still powering the bulbs, but reducing the voltage to about 10% of normal for the nonoperating projector. This is usually a simple modification; soldering a power resistor across relay contacts on the automation. It will vary of course if you have c/o's or single projector. You may have to experiment a bit to get the right voltage (just a little less than what would make the filament start glowing.)

This is a common trick also used by every stage lighing equipment. It allows the filament to stay warm, but dark. Since the filament is warm, it will come on quicker; scenes may require quick on. That same idea can be used for c/o's; the exciter supply may have to be adjusted a little higher to supply both the operating proj bulb and the 10% "not running" bulb.


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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-06-2002 09:38 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Warming the filaments on stages is quite common and is a necessity with some really large lamps(2kw and up incandescent). All modern dimmer racks, or packs are now computer based meaning that each rack or pack has its own processor unit. This allows great flexibility and among the hundred or so adjustable software based things allows one to set minimum and maximum voltage output levels for each dimmer, individually, or as a whole.
As for exciters, I agree with installing a resistor across the relay to keep the lamp at about 10 to 15% of voltage in standby. Leaving them on all the time will allow vaporized tungsten to deposit on the glass inside the lamp, darkining it, and throwing calibration levels off. Exciter lamps do have an hour rating too like an xenon lamp, and should be taken into account in normal weekly booth maintainance. Better yet, get rid of the dang things and modernize!
Mark @ GTS


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Jeff Stricker
Master Film Handler

Posts: 481
From: Calumet, Mi USA
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 01-06-2002 10:50 AM      Profile for Jeff Stricker   Email Jeff Stricker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark's reply brings to mind radio transmitters I have worked on.
Transmitting tubes are turned on using a step-start circuit. When the
filament is turned on, there is a dropping resistor in series
with the filament to allow warm up to approximately 60% of
normal operating voltage, then a timer actuates a relay which
shorts out the resistor and normal filament voltage is
applied to the tube. This greatly improves tube life in
transmitters that are only used for a portion of a 24 hour period.

Many years ago I worked at a small 250 watt AM station. We were
on the air from 6 AM to 10:30 PM. However, we found out very
quickly that we had less tube failures (this was 100% tube transmitter - 1946 vintage!) if we left the filaments on all night after sign off. If there was a catastrophic tube failure, it would occur when the filaments were first turned on by the morning guy...the tx was remote controlled and located 2 miles away from the studio, and a pain in the butt to work on in the early AM!!

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Ray Derrick
Master Film Handler

Posts: 310
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 01-11-2002 06:26 PM      Profile for Ray Derrick   Email Ray Derrick   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In fact, for long term reliability it is better to leave your sound rack on all the time rather than turning it off every night. It is the constant heating up and cooling down (causing expansion and contraction of physical materials) that does the most damage to electronic components. Voltage spikes at switch on is the other main factor.

As Jeff has indicated, this is well known in the broadcast and televison industries where over half a century of experience has proven that leaving equipment permanently powered on results in the least failures by a huge margin. Any small increase in the power bill is greatly offset by the reduced cost of repairs and replacements.


------------------
Ray Derrick
President
Panalogic Corporation Pty Limited
44 Carrington Road
Castle Hill NSW 2154 Australia
Phone: 61 (0)2 9894 6655 Fax: 61 (0)2 9894 6935

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 01-11-2002 08:44 PM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ray,

So do you believe that leaving the equipment on should include the actual exciter bulb as well, or do is the heat buildup just as damaging as turning it on and off?

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Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2321
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 01-11-2002 09:42 PM      Profile for Dave Macaulay   Email Dave Macaulay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have 2 exceptions to the "leave it on is best" rule - things with motors running and lamps.
Motors just wear out bearings, and lamps just burn out. There are theories that turning an incandescent lamp on is worth a half hour of life, but for overnight they should be off. As already stated, the exciter lamp has a rated life and the light level drops as it ages. They should be routinely replaced at the rated life, not just when they burn out!

Projection equipment generally has no continuously running motors except fans. Ignoring for a moment that fans themselves have motors, units like amplifiers and CP500s that have cooling fans are a special case. It IS better electronically to leave them on but the fan will cause dust and dirt to build up all the time. I've seen amps and processors fail from overheating just because they were full of dust. The "good" of leaving them on is outweighed by the "bad" of sucking dirt in all night long.
If you have a dust free booth (hah!) or routinely open and clean the amps etc then leave em on. (you should have scheduled dust removal!)
High reactance rectifiers should be off at night. Nothing in it except the control transformer and fan is powered and they will get filled with dust and overheat too. Switchers are like amps, it is a tradeoff between stress and dust - but considering the power available to one - and how much smoke it could make overnight if it went really crazy - I would want them off.
The exhaust fan should be off. There is no reason to suck dust onto the mirror and lamp all night. (only exception is hot/wet climates where backdraft at night can cause condensation and really nasty rusting inside the lamphouse)

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 01-11-2002 11:15 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't think Ray meant leaving the exhaust fans on... just the sound equipment.

In one place I worked, they left the sound equipment on, and had very few problems. But I've worked in places that didn't, and also had vew problems.

In places that leave stuff on, I'd suggest the operators there make a special effort to change the HVAC filters often.

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Ray Derrick
Master Film Handler

Posts: 310
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 01-12-2002 02:51 AM      Profile for Ray Derrick   Email Ray Derrick   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Firstly I am not suggesting everyone should suddenly start leaving their sound racks on. I was simply stating the facts about electronic reliability.

Dust can be a consideration, however in a clean air-conditioned work environment, dust build-up should be minimal. Also many of the popular modern amplifiers have fans that only come on the when the internal temperature reaches a certain level, so they should not come on at all at night when there is no audio.

Obviously the decision to leave your sound gear on depends on your operating hours and many other factors. For example if you only show one session a day the increase in your power bill would probably outweigh any benefit. However for a cinema complex that runs from 10am until midnight, it may well be worth considering.

And no Ken, I was not suggesting leaving the exciter on all night - lamps are a different kettle of fish. Mark's suggestion of running it at 10% of normal when it is not in use, is a good one, but turn it off when you go home.

------------------
Ray Derrick
President/Chief Engineer
Panalogic Corporation Sydney, Australia
Phone: 61 (0)2 9894 6655 Fax: 61 (0)2 9894 6935


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William Bunch
Film Handler

Posts: 87
From: Misawa, Japan
Registered: Nov 2001


 - posted 01-12-2002 03:14 AM      Profile for William Bunch   Author's Homepage   Email William Bunch   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In our theaters we only have one showing on weeknights and two or three on the weekends. We always power down overnight. This is because of the dust problem. Our buildings (being military issue) are not always antiseptic. That and the base Fire Marshall says to.

Our sound racks will stay on for the whole evening no matter how many performances probably becase the non-sync system is on the same breaker.

Mark brings up a good point about the inside of the glass envelope being deposited with tungsten. But the main issue is filament sag. Whenever I do a Dolbly checkup on our sound opticals the first thing I check for is filament sag which can alter the output considerably. I would think that this sag would be proportional to the amount of total time that the lamp is operated.

I have nevr changed an eciter lamp because it was burned out. Only because it was dark, the adhesive base had let go throwing the lamp out of alignment or that the filament was sagging out of specs.

I doubt that mono equiped theaters would have to worry much.

Bill Bunch
Misawa, Japan

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Ray Derrick
Master Film Handler

Posts: 310
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 01-12-2002 04:23 AM      Profile for Ray Derrick   Email Ray Derrick   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
William

How come the US military are still using exciter lamps? I though you guys were supposed to be at the leading edge of technology.

------------------
Ray Derrick
President/Chief Engineer
Panalogic Corporation Sydney, Australia
Phone: 61 (0)2 9894 6655 Fax: 61 (0)2 9894 6935

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 01-12-2002 10:10 AM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
For many things, the US military is on the leading edge of "low bidder!"

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-12-2002 11:18 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Willian said "the first thing I check for is filament sag"
Filament sag can also cause the loss of the very top end of the response curve as well. Having the exciter dead on with the actual slit in the slit lens is very important, especially with narrow slit lenses. Of course this is just another of the many reasons for installing reverse scan pickups...........

Indeed when I worked in broadcast television back in the late 70's we never did shut stuff down except to either work on it or move it. The only thing that was ever turned off were the beam switches for the studio cameras when they were not being used. Once a week we pulled maintainance on the TTU-100 transmitter and of course it was shut down for that for 6 hours every Sunday night. I never quite got used to having 18kv at 16 amps capacity flowing around me. That is the best job to hold to learn great respect for high voltage!
Mark @ GTS


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