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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Kinoton Film Cleaner - Opinions

   
Author Topic: Kinoton Film Cleaner - Opinions
Grant Davies
Film Handler

Posts: 7
From: Wangaratta, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Aug 2000


 - posted 12-24-2001 12:31 AM      Profile for Grant Davies   Author's Homepage   Email Grant Davies   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We are currently looking at fitting all four kinoton FP 30E projectors with Kinoton Ionisation cleaners. After contacting our supplier for a list of people in Australia who have them (To go look at, see and ask how well they work or don't) they said that they don't know of anyone in Australia who has one yet.

So I ask the might of the forum for any opinions on the ability of the cleaning system.

We only have a particle problem that you would normally associate with nylon bands and gates, the occasional outside fibre etc and just plain dirty prints. Being as we are down the chain a little.

Grant

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 12-24-2001 03:39 AM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
What the heck is an ionisation cleaner? Sounds more expensive than a media cleaner.

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Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 12-24-2001 04:41 AM      Profile for Richard Fowler   Email Richard Fowler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The units consist of a cleaner that promotes a charge on the filmstock to attract the dirt, and with soft brushes, cleans off the particles. The manufacturer is Kinetronics based in Germany and The U.S. they are also used in film labs. They are not cheap and they are not good in cleaning any oil based grime ( which will also foul the brushes ).
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 12-24-2001 08:29 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Kinoton cleaner is the Kinetronics cleaner with Kinoton's badge on it.

As a maintanence cleaner, they are just fine. They will keep the dust off. In addition to the electrostatic dischage, they have a blower and filter to draw the dirt off to which it gets trapped in the filter (changable).

As Richard states, they won't do you much good on oily dirt nor heavy dirt. They merely keep things nice from the get-go. Malco theatres in the US uses them and likes them. We had one customer try it and liked it. They DO NOT cure static problems on prints...before the film gets back to the platter it will have picked up the static charge again for the next show.

Where I would like them is on reel-to-reel operations (or for archival films that can't have chemicals added) but other than that, the media cleaner with Film-Guard can't be beat.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 12-24-2001 12:04 PM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
Okay, then, this sounds like what was used (in conjunction with PTRs) on some of the older Imax and Imax Dome projectors.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-24-2001 03:07 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A lot of the older Imax machines used a rotating set of brushes connected to a vacum and a antistatic bar
I believe they were made in LA and they are still very popular in labs

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 12-27-2001 01:40 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The ionization is usually provided by a high voltage AC corona discharge or by a radioactive material like Polonium. Creating positive and negative air ions temporarily makes the air conductive, allowing any charge on the film to dissipate and not hold dust:
http://www.photo-services.com/kinetronics%202.html
http://simco-static.com/simco/applications.asp
http://www.2spi.com/catalog/photo/statmaster.html

As noted, these cleaners can be effective in removing loose dirt particles, but won't remove embedded or oily dirt.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-27-2001 04:01 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
SanLab system also manufactures Static master products especially for telecine, printing and projection equipment http://www.sanlabsystems.com/staticmaster.html
They also make excellent PTR's

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 12-27-2001 07:27 PM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We use Kinetronic cleaner in one of our theater. I noted that it has to be clean daily. If dust will accumulate into the cleaner, it will start to redistribute the dust on the print with bad result.
To have the cleaner working properly you'll have to clean daily the inside of the cleaner and clean the brushes with a vacuum or similar.
Since the cleaner's vacuum is not powerful, if dust will reimain in the brushes or in the cleaner it will be redistribute on the print when exit from the cleaner.
Clean the cleaner's filter is not enough.

Bye
Antonio

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