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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » In all of Australia, only ONE cinema is running AP2 entirely in DTS... (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: In all of Australia, only ONE cinema is running AP2 entirely in DTS...
John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 12-08-2001 08:37 AM      Profile for John Wilson   Email John Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Last Thursday 'Amercan Pie 2' opened nationally on 260 plus screens. We received our discs Thursday night . On Friday I was checking the screen and noticed reel four was playing in analog SR where it HAD been in dts last I checked. Ordinarily, I would say 'Oh well, I'll play it in SRD' but as they are all second hand and also Photoguarded the SRD track has a 6 to 7 error rate and faults in some reels so that was really not much of an option.

Now, we are running INTERNATIONAL VERSION discs as they've changed a song in the credits or something...I don't know why, but that's why we aren't using the normal DOMESTIC VERSION discs.

I threw a disc in the PC and found that there was no reel 4 on disc B nor was it on disc A for that matter. I called UIP and informed the print controller who said 'thank God!' to which I replied 'Huh??' She then added that she had been getting complaints that the 'DTS didn't work on AP2' but that was all she was being told. I asked her if by chance there were any DOMESTIC VERSIONS in the country and she sent them straight out. I found reel four on them and got Michael Barry (proud owner of a new CDrom burner ) and asked him to make a composite disc of INTERNATIONAL and include the reel four file. He did this today and dropped them back in tonight before the 9.30 show (full house 840 people) and it ran without a hitch.

So with many thanks to Michael, The Randwick Ritz Cinema is now the only cinema in all of Australia running the entire print in DTS. I think we should put that in the newspaper ads.

Maybe DTS will re-issue the discs and this time include reel four...I asked the print controller if she would like a copy of the corrected disc so she could rectify it for other locations, but for some reason she seemed quite disinterested.


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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 12-08-2001 10:28 AM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I thought that if there was a web site that could store DTS discs online, that would help people who later get a DTS print without discs. I understand DTS's concern about copyright protections, but you really can't do anything by just copying disc data. A DTS player is still needed.

Never thought about the impact of Photoguard on the SRD track... that's a major downfall.

You'd think the film makers would have more concern about their product.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 12-08-2001 04:45 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
I've always wanted to keep the latest 30 or so dts disc files here on this site for download by theaters that don't receive a set of discs or receive damaged discs, but it seems no one at dts is too interested for the same argument, possible copyright infringement. That is definitely crazy, for what good would a set of discs be to someone that does not have a print? We all know they cannot be played in a normal cd player.

All it would take is for dts to get the ok from the studios and to mail me one disc of every release that comes out. As time went by, I could also offer temporary downloads upon request for people who got in a repertory print and no discs. I do get broken or scratched discs from time to time and with recent events like the "Shallow Hal" and new B disc for "Monsters Inc", it could save a lot of people from a bad show.

I've got the storage and bandwidth to make it work, but I don't think the studios realize the number of people who could use such a service. How many other people have had a defective or missing disc in whatever capacity over the last year?


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Gerard S. Cohen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 975
From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 12-08-2001 05:36 PM      Profile for Gerard S. Cohen   Email Gerard S. Cohen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
[We all know they cannot be played in a normal cd player.]

I found out the hard way Brad, and disabled the disk "Auto-Detect"
program on my computer. And even though I reinstalled the Sound Blaster disk that came with my Dell Pentium 3 with Windows 98, that
function doesn't work, though the disk drive does.
Curiosity kills more than the cat.

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Keith Peticolas
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 108
From: Eagle River, Alaska, USA
Registered: Aug 2001


 - posted 12-08-2001 07:25 PM      Profile for Keith Peticolas   Email Keith Peticolas   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Great idea Brad, I'm always getting my dts discs late. Usually the day after the show opens. Also have had a bad disc. A place I could download the file would be fantastic. Count me in.

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Stephen Jones
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Geelong Victoria Australia
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-09-2001 06:57 AM      Profile for Stephen Jones   Email Stephen Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes John found the same prob with DTS disks,we are running it in Dolby Dig with a error reading of 7 at the start of reel 1 then drops to 5-6 and stays there for rest of the movie.
Stephen

------------------

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 12-09-2001 11:13 AM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad,

I like your idea, but I think that it will not have success because:

1. Theaters must have a fast internet connection (xdsl or faster)
2. Theaters should have someone able to use a computer
3. Theaters should be very careful with "film done right". I think that few theaters would spend time to download and burn a copy of DTS files of the new film...

Bye
Antonio


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Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-09-2001 11:51 AM      Profile for Greg Mueller   Author's Homepage   Email Greg Mueller   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It would be interesting to see if the info could be transmitted in that way. Seems like it should. Has anyone ever tried it?

------------------
Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut
http://www.muellersatomics.com/

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 12-09-2001 02:51 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes it will work. I tried it a year or so ago just to verify it could be done.

Antonio, with the ever-increasing availability of DSL and such connections, more and more people are quickly getting broadband internet connections. I am not suggesting that this replace actually sending out dts discs. I am only recommending it be an emergency alternative for theaters who do not recieve their discs, or received damaged/defective discs. Odds are that someone working at the theater will have a broadband internet connection and a cd burner for the occasional save. It would by no means be a weekly thing for theaters.

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 12-10-2001 02:50 PM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad,

I think that it could be a good idea just for few people, perhaps for us "film-techers" that want to "make film better".

With a 640kbit ADSL we can get 80kbyte/s with best condition.
A two set DTS disk are 1300MB at maximum.
Let's have that you can download at 80KB/s.
You will spend 4,62 hours to download all files.
Let's say (suppose that you work in a multiplex) that you need two different movie: 9,24 hours.

I don't say that it is impossibile, just that it is unlikely that a theater owner decide to download DTS files from internet. At least the theatre managers that I know...

However, if you decide to put DTS disks image on the internet, pls do not forget the Italian version...

Bye
Antonio

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 12-10-2001 02:56 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This discussion shows the challenge of sending about 40 Gigabytes of data per movie over a network for Digital Cinema. The reality is that most theatres just don't have the "pipeline" yet, and couldn't afford it at today's prices.

As Snow White may have said: "Someday my (digital) prints will come".

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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Steven Pickles
Film Handler

Posts: 81
From: Gainesville, FL, USA
Registered: Mar 2001


 - posted 12-10-2001 05:03 PM      Profile for Steven Pickles   Email Steven Pickles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John,

The data pipeline is definitely an issue but could easily be taken care of by the distributors. I'm not sure how much it costs for Airborne Express to ship two or three 40 lb. film cans for each film. I would assume about $150 a piece--give or take. Forty gigabytes of data can be sent either with a hard disk or over a secure network for less than $150. A hard drive, for example, would have an initial cost and then would run about $20 to ship with Airborne. A network data stream via the internet or other medium would cost even less. Only about 98% of the fiber optic cable installed in the past ten or so years is actually in use and bandwidth is in abundance. If it is a cost issue, then I believe transmitting the data is the way to go.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 12-10-2001 05:14 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Steven, it's on average about $18 to ship a print from the depot to your theater and the print freight coming from the lab is in all probability less than that. I'd guess $30 a print.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-10-2001 05:23 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad -- don't forget that the cost of shipping from the lab to the depot can be divided by the number of theatres to which a given print is shipped over its lifetime...

As for data storage: the cheapest way to ship 40-gig files would be on a single DLT tape. These tapes cost about $70 apiece (less in quantity, of course) and weigh a couple of pounds. Sending a DLT tape overnight via Fedex should be well under $100. There's no way that data networks can come anywhere near that range for price per gigabyte. Also, having multiple DLT drives in the theatre would provide redundancy, whereas it is highly unlikely that a theatre would have multiple T3 lines to the distributor (which would have to be point-to-point lines...not Internet connections...for reliability and security reasons).

Shipping hard disks would be a bad idea from a reliability point of view. If DLTs couldn't be used, DVD-R disks would be a reasonable second choice. The manufacturing cost of a DVD-R would be far less than a DLT, although it would take a dozen or so DVD-Rs to carry the same quantity of information.

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Karen Hultgren
Master Film Handler

Posts: 492
From: Agoura Hills, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 12-11-2001 01:28 PM      Profile for Karen Hultgren   Author's Homepage   Email Karen Hultgren   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I want to remind everyone that the movie discs belong to the studio, they do not belong to us. If someone needs discs, we have to first clear it with the studio before we send out any movie disc.

We always have spare discs on-hand. So, if you need replacement discs, first call the film distribuator and if they don't have any, let me know and I'll do my best to get them for you.

Karen at DTS
khultgren@dtsonline.com

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