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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Projection: Platter v. Changeover - Opinion Poll (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Projection: Platter v. Changeover - Opinion Poll
Joe Beres
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 606
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 10-23-2001 04:32 PM      Profile for Joe Beres   Email Joe Beres   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I was talking to a projectionist that worked mostly during the 70s and 80s the other day, and asked him if he ever missed projecting film. His response was, "Sometimes I miss being a projectionist, but I have no desire to be a button pusher." Basically, what he was saying is that he doesn't really like to whole concept of platter projection where a single projectionist is running an entire multiplex. Obviously he is simplifying the whole process by calling it "button pushing," but I understand what he is saying. I am lucky enough to be running one of the only changeover houses left in Madison, and I have never run a platter system. (I have run films on a Double MUT when one of our projectors was down) I really like running changeovers. I do feel like it is an art, to a degree. I enjoy the control and the responsibility that comes with it. With my experience using the MUT, I don't really think I would get the same satisfaction out of running films any other way. (I would like to learn the platter systems, but that's just because I'm a bit of a geek)

I am curious about how others feel on this subject, especially those that have/do run changeover houses. I am not necessarily trying to start a platter v. changeover argument (both have advantages that the other lacks), I just want to know how you feel from an operator standpoint.

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 10-23-2001 04:51 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We've talked about this before; it depends on what you have- an 24-plex or a single theater. Running any kind of rep house almost requires a c/o setup.

If I had a projection setup at home, I'd want c/o's (with 1 hr reels) and a platter.

If (at my job) I had any more than a few houses to operate, I'd want a platter. Making c/o's, knowing exactly when to lower the curtian, gettin' fancy with the house lights (and footlights if you got 'em) was a lot of fun, but it wears off when you have to do too many.

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Will Kutler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1506
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 10-23-2001 06:30 PM      Profile for Will Kutler   Email Will Kutler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think that the only major advantage of a platter over change over is the ability to have a multi-plex.

Remember that as a Projectionist you are a showman and running changeovers manually along with the associated tasks is a true art form which is beyond the ability of typical 18 year old Jane or John "don't give a " concession stand!

I have read several articles about how platters are supposed to be easier on film than change-overs! Ya right! The big complaint that I have heard about change overs is subjecting the film to dirt and damage during rewinding--ya, like film is not exposed to dirt with platter operation? Yes, I have seen many cases of dirty heads and tails with change-overs as well as platters--but this can be eliminated by excellent film handling techniques, housekeeping and maintenance.

One advantage of change-overs vs platters is the ability to inspect reels between shows, and I would never, never consider splicing an archival print for platter ops!


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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 10-23-2001 07:18 PM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
One advantage of change-overs vs platters is the ability to inspect reels between shows...

Why on Earth would you need to do that?

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Will Kutler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1506
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 10-23-2001 08:07 PM      Profile for Will Kutler   Email Will Kutler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Why would you want to inspect reels between shows? Thats an old layover from nitrate film days. I was witness to projectionists who would both clean and repair damage (worn sprocket holes) on reels between shows as they rewound the reels--kinda sorta like everyone talking about doing build-ups on 6000s on the rewind bench so that reels can be inspected as opposed to building directly on a platter. This is not really necessary today with our current print stock and LaVezzi VKF sprockets.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

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From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 10-23-2001 08:26 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes this topic has indeed been beaten to death. Might want to do a search for it. There's more than anyone could probably be able to stomach on one sitdown in the archives.

Will, platters ARE easier on film than changeoevers. Running reels is a brute force method of film handling and rewinding is more of a problem than film being exposed to the air for 20 seconds or so because of the higher speeds during the rewinding cycle that attract dust and dirt. It is also very important that the tension settings on the rewind bench and reel arms are set properly or the film will be all cinch scratched to hell at the reel ends, which I see *most* of the time with changeover houses. (Guttag's theater is most probably not an offender.)

I believe the general projectionist population does agree that for short runs of only a few presentations that changeovers are better for the sake of the film, but for a show that is going to run more than a few times that platters are better on the film.


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Scott Norwood
Film God

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From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-23-2001 08:41 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree that this topic has been beaten to death. I work with both systems on a semi-regular basis (not to mention 16mm with changeovers as well)...each has its advantages and drawbacks.

The one setup that I haven't tried but would like to at some point is a multiplex with automated changeover equipment. On the surface, it seems like more work than platters and more subject to the effects of automation failure (but more redundant, too), but I just don't know. All the changeover booths I've worked in are manually operated and aren't multiplexes, so it would definitely be a different experience.

I also haven't worked with towers, but I assume that operation is the same as with platters and automation, except that the prints need to be rewound.


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John Westlund
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 204
From: Burney, CA, USA
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 10-23-2001 08:43 PM      Profile for John Westlund   Email John Westlund   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I work in a single screen theatre with a platter. It is nice to have it but I sometimes wish we did changeovers instead.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 10-23-2001 09:05 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have run changeovers. In absolutely no way do I believe that it is an "art form". If you can thread a projector, hit the motor start switch right when you see the first cue and then hit the changeover switch right when you see the second cue (or a second after it, actually) then you can run changeovers. No special "talent" required. Just skill. If you try to get artsy when you push these buttons, then you are probably screwing up the show. Exceptions being fading the lights up at just the right time and stuff like that.

Some will argue that running changeovers makes you part of the "magic". That's fine and dandy if you believe in hocus-pocus. The magic is in the making of the movie, not in a precisely timed changeover. Using the "I'm part of the magical experience" logic, then you are also helping make a bad movie bad, since you are part of it.

You can have a great presentation with changeovers and with platters. But I am sick and tired of people whining that they are superior just because they run changeovers. Most of these people are a bit older, stuck in their ways and blinded by their past. These are the same people that probably go around saying things like "In my day I had to walk to school in 8 feet of snow, we didn't have these fancy cars to drive or the sun to melt the snow back then. You kids have it so easy today". Running changeovers does not make you more of a showman. Your presentation either is incredible or it is not.

Bottom line: It takes more skill to be a car mechanic than to do changeovers. There are far more mechanics than projectionists. Lots of these guys were the same concession kids that have been described. It's not for everybody, but it doesn't exactly take mindbending skill to run changeovers properly.


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Wes Hughes
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 175
From: Raleigh, NC, USA
Registered: Aug 2001


 - posted 10-23-2001 10:24 PM      Profile for Wes Hughes   Email Wes Hughes   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
BRAVO Mr. Redifer! I cannot count the number of times in the past 10-15 years I have wanted to make the very point you made !!

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Joe Beres
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 606
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 10-24-2001 12:48 AM      Profile for Joe Beres   Email Joe Beres   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Whoa there, Joe. I'm hoping it was what the old projectionist said to me that ticked you off, and not something that I said. I didn't mean to come across as superior at all. I just enjoy running film the way i do, and don't believe myself to be a better projectionist [or more magical] than anyone here. I was just curious about people's personal preference. Since you've done both, what's yours?

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 10-24-2001 02:23 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I really wasn't thinking about "names" when I wrote my post, so it was not directed at any one individual. If you enjoy changeovers then that is cool.

Personally I like platters. At the Telluride Film Festival, everything is changeovers. There was one film (Straight Story) which was run first for the staff. Then it was run at another theater (there were 5 different theaters at the festival that year, I believe) then finally at my theater. At each reel change (including the moments leading up to and after) I could see signs of wear... scuff marks and even some dirt. This movie had only been run 3 times and it looked OK when I saw it on it's first run with the staff. All changeovers don't have to be like this... perhaps I am a bit jaded due to the prehistoric equipment used at the TFF. The reel rewinders are the type where you close the case and it has two speeds: super fast and off. Not exactly friendly on the film. Hard starts like that can ruin a film very quickly. If I made a film I would never want it run there unless they updated their equipment to something with variable speeds. I guess if you want your film to get damaged quick, then that's the stuff to use.

If a person finds running changeovers "fun" then more power to them. They certainly don't have any advantages over platters as far as presentation goes, however (assuming the best projectionists are working in either scenario). But platters do have an advantage that there is much less wear on the film since there is constant handling with changeovers.

I do regret that exhibitors see platters as a way to skimp on payroll and training and just shove people into the booth. Brainwraps are rarely caused by the existence of the platter, just poor film handling and maintenence. Don't blame the equipment when you see platter damage on film. Blame the operator and/or the tech who services it.


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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 10-24-2001 02:26 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Scott - IMHO, Brad's 'brute force' argument with regard to film being pulled off a feed spool (as distinct from being fed off a platter under power) applies to towers only more so. What's even worse is that many actually use reverse tension on the feed spool in order to avoid the large weight of the vertically mounted feature from yoyo-ing out of control as it is pulled by the projector's feed sprocket. To ensure an even wind on takeup, the motors used are of much higher torque than the typical belt or chain-driven arrangement used to drive take up spindles that are an integral part of the projector. And when you rewind, reverse tension is again applied to the spool feeding the film to stop it from running out of control.

All this is very bad news for the print. IHMO, towers are the worst of both worlds and the only possible justification for them would be in a projection box where there just isn't the floorspace either for two projectors or a platter. For this reason we had to use on at a university film society I was involved in years ago (the projection box was formerly a cleaners' cupboard!), and I do not have happy memories of that thing, what it did to the prints and especially what it did to my back lifting the prints up onto the feed spindle!

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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 10-24-2001 05:05 AM      Profile for Pete Naples   Email Pete Naples   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Towers DO NOT damage film! Just like reels and platters don't if used correctly. This myth that towers damage film starts when people do not know or care enough to use the equipment as it was intended to be used, or the equipment is in a poor state of repair. I have long since given up attempting to educate operators how to use the Westrex tower correctly, I've found that as soon as I'm out of the booth they revert to their old, lazy habits; rewinding a full spool in five minutes, running with too much tension on, etc, etc. One of the great things about particularly the Westrex tower is that you can adjust the pay-off and take-up tension very subtly and easily.
Used correctly the towers will not damage film, used incorrectly (which sadly seems to be the way they are used) they will damage film, just like any other film transport system, although it's fair to say that it's easier to abuse a tower than it is the average platter.
I ran a print of Pulp Fiction on towers when it was released, it left our cinema some six months or so later, having been run in all three screen with only reel joins and no visible scratching. The result of a team of operators who knew how to use the towers properly and cared enough to do it. We got the same copy back for rep runs weeks and weeks later and it was in a terrible state.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-24-2001 05:05 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There is no excuse for scuffed and marked film in a changeover theatre. Changeovers done right with proper handeling and rewinding will not damage film.
Also I have run and installed many multiplexes that were automated changeovers and found them to be far less work in the long run
and now a word from Steve on this issue

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