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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » What does Fox use to determine digital formats? (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: What does Fox use to determine digital formats?
Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 10-18-2001 04:16 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Fox is the one studio that can't seem to make up their mind if they are going to encode their prints with all digital formats, or whether they leave SDDS off. Does anyone know their specific reasoning and how they arrive at this decision?

(Paramount seems to only encode SDDS on their big "mega blockbuster" releases and leaves it off of the rest, but I'm not seeing this pattern with Fox.)


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Charles Everett
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1470
From: New Jersey
Registered: May 2001


 - posted 10-18-2001 06:21 PM      Profile for Charles Everett   Email Charles Everett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Fox reserves SDDS/DTS for big-budget movies (X-Men, Star Wars) and big-star titles (Cast Away, Moulin Rouge). Check the ads in any New York-area newspaper and you'll see this is generally true.

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Rick Long
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 759
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 10-18-2001 10:31 PM      Profile for Rick Long   Email Rick Long   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you both. So often when I go to a theatre, the night before I do a routine service there, I am dismayed to see so many digital playback units lying idle, because no one gave consideration as to what films were encoded with what type of digital track.

First thing I do the next morning, when I arrive to do service (alone, btw) is to play "chess" with the digial units in order to acheive maximum digital performnance.

As you can imagine, this takes some time, finding out which prints are in which digital format. Different features between the matinee' and night shows add to the fun.

These posts help me to speed up this process.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 10-18-2001 11:16 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
According to Michael Goucher in the Feature Info forum, Fox's "From Hell" has an SDDS track on it. Sooooo that's supposed to be some big summer/holiday film???


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James R. Hammonds, Jr
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 931
From: Houston, TX, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 10-19-2001 02:33 AM      Profile for James R. Hammonds, Jr   Email James R. Hammonds, Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The print of FROM HELL I biult up did not have an SDDS track.

I also dont see the patters Brad mentioned either, unless someone at FOX thought the kiddies would come running out for GLITTER.
Also, not all big summer releases had the SDDS track (DR. DOOLITTLE 2, BIG MOMMAS HOUSE). They may not have been expected to do HUGE business, but it would still make sense to use SDDS on those rather than GLITTER.

Also, if they picked SDDS based on how much money the film was supposed to make, then why not DONT SAY A WORD?

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Charles Everett
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1470
From: New Jersey
Registered: May 2001


 - posted 10-19-2001 07:53 AM      Profile for Charles Everett   Email Charles Everett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
James R: Glitter was developed at Sony (which uses SDDS on everything it originates). Fox picked up that title for US/Canada.

Brad: I'm looking at today's Newark (NJ) Star-Ledger as I post this. None of the ads for the 3 Fox releases (From Hell, Joy Ride, Don't Say a Word) mention SDDS/DTS.

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 10-19-2001 10:01 AM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I know for a fact that Joy Ride, Don't say a word and From hell use DTS timecode.

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Karen Hultgren
Master Film Handler

Posts: 492
From: Agoura Hills, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 10-19-2001 12:38 PM      Profile for Karen Hultgren   Author's Homepage   Email Karen Hultgren   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually, with Fox, we have an agreement with them to do all their films. The only exception is "negative pick-up" - that refers to films already in production that they purchase. Getting DTS on those is dependant on how far along they are in post production.

Karen at DTS

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Jesse Skeen
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1517
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Aug 2000


 - posted 10-19-2001 04:24 PM      Profile for Jesse Skeen   Email Jesse Skeen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've always been curious why Paramount doesn't use SDDS on most of their films. Is it a political thing or something? They didn't seem to use DTS consistently at first either but have lately had it on everything.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 10-19-2001 04:31 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
I know the SRD track comes with standard Dolby analog mastering. How does dts and sdds compare cost-wise? Perhaps that is the issue.

Karen, what would the approximate cost be for a 6 reel film running 1 hour 45 minutes in dts? Is the cost more varied in respect to the quantity of prints, or is most of the cost in original mastering?

John Luttrelle or Al Barton, could you tell us approximately what it would cost for the same film to be encoded in sdds? Is the cost affected further with the need for special printers, or are most labs fully set up to run sdds on all printers anyway?


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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 10-19-2001 05:02 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad asked: "are most labs fully set up to run sdds on all printers anyway?"

AFAIK, all the large labs that do release prints are capable of printing "quad track" (analog, Dolby Digital, DTS time code and SDDS), on most of the printers they use for release printing. Of course, the sound negative needs to have all tracks recorded. Kodak developed a special "pan sensitive" sound recording film for this purpose, since different colors of light are used to expose each track:
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/products/lab/2374.shtml

Any added lab cost is in assuring the quality of the tracks, as different equipment is used to check each type of track, and a defect in one of the tracks may mean redoing the reel.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Karen Hultgren
Master Film Handler

Posts: 492
From: Agoura Hills, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 10-23-2001 12:13 PM      Profile for Karen Hultgren   Author's Homepage   Email Karen Hultgren   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad,

The cost varies and is dependant on the agreement we reach with the studio. I cannot quote what we actually charge any particular studio. Sorry.

And, what is the deal with the monkey photo? I'm not nearly that hairy!

Karen

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Stefan Scholz
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 223
From: Schoenberg, Germany
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 10-27-2001 05:34 AM      Profile for Stefan Scholz   Author's Homepage   Email Stefan Scholz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
AFAIK, there is no additional mastering charge, if you're going to use SDDS 8 track, as they want to support 8 track as a major difference in cinema going experience. There is a charge on 5.1 track, but that is definitively not the reason. Making dts disks for foreign markets maybe another thing, AFAIK, distributors have to pay for the glass master, and with a small release this would add up a "substantial" ammunt to release budgets.
In recent year, at least in Europe SDDS has spent substantial investments on lab and recording site consultancy to ensure, that prints are delivered in runnable condition. As known, a single ACM (fallback to analoge) marks a print as non runnable, as do more than a few of those extremely ugly DCM's (digital fallback). In past the laboratory quality has been the major problem with SDDS prints. We now find those problems to occurr with SRD tracks, brand new prints to play 6-7-F on the initial screenings. Looking at the tracks with microsope, you can see the blurry exposure.
One reason to use a specific format on a major release, is reliability in premium theatres, as distributors want to have their film going with outstanding performance. So funny, not all all prints have dts.

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Bruce Hansen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 847
From: Stone Mountain, GA, USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 10-27-2001 05:30 PM      Profile for Bruce Hansen   Email Bruce Hansen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Karen,

Looking at our pictures, we seam to have something in common. Would you like to go out? I will buy the bananas. (Sorry, I just couldn't resist).

I was surprised to find that "Bedazzled" only had dolby digital (and optical). No DTS, or SDDS.


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John Lasher
Master Film Handler

Posts: 493
From: Newark, DE
Registered: Aug 2001


 - posted 10-28-2001 05:50 PM      Profile for John Lasher   Author's Homepage   Email John Lasher   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
From the sound formats in the ads lately my best guess at how sound formats are decided is something along these lines:

Guy # 1: (to guy #2) Okay, I'm going to put this blindfold on you, spin you around three times, and then I want you to pick the sound formats for this movie.

The only company I can give a 100% answer on is Era 5000 Digital in Delaware (Dela-Where?) our next movie (and our first theatrical release) "Lose it All", slated for August 2002, will only have matrixed stereo optical w/SR "compatible" NR.

Our second theatrical release (scheduled for Late 2002/Early 2003) will have DTS, Ultra-Stereo Analog and SDDS 6 channel.

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