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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Switching vs. Reactance Supplies (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Switching vs. Reactance Supplies
Jeff Taylor
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 601
From: Chatham, NJ/East Hampton, NY
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 10-15-2001 08:59 AM      Profile for Jeff Taylor   Email Jeff Taylor   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Reading the Strong Super Lume-X thread it struck (sorry, no pun) me that it might be interesting to get everyone's slant on switching vs. "brute force" reactance power supplies in terms of MTBF, overall reliability, ease of service, etc. I have both and have only had problems with the reactance supply, but they were such simple problems even I could trace my way through them. I certainly wouldn't try with a switcher...but then they're so cool-running, light, and efficient. What's your take?

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-15-2001 09:40 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Both can be great if done correctly. There are good rectifiers of both types on the market and there are also bad rectifiers of both types on the market. The only thing I stick by is never to use switching rectifiers, or computerized sound processors for any important location work of any type. If things can go wrong they will if there is some computer dependent thing in the chain.
Mark @ GTS


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Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2321
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 10-15-2001 11:06 AM      Profile for Dave Macaulay   Email Dave Macaulay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We've only used the Strong switchers, and the newest generation have been fairly good. A 2K recently failed, even if it had been out of warranty I would not attempt to repair it, it's not really set up for maintenance and I would want a test setup to check the control board at least. The power stuff is well hidden inside!
I know of a lot of problems with 7K systems running switchers. I wouldn't recommend that combination, AMC at least has removed their 7K switchers in Canada and installed high-reactance ones. They do keep a switcher for emergencies and they left the quick-connect plugs, using the AC for the "new" one although the DC is hard wired. If a rectifier fails they can fairly quickly disconnect a DC lead, plug in the AC and DC cables and use the switcher for the rest of the day's shows.
That said, we've seen several failures of the AC connectors. Maybe Strong isn't tightening the connections (a weakness of theirs) but replacing 2 twistlok connectors gets expensive.
I would recommend a high reactance one for any remote place or a rental machine, and a spare switcher be on hand at a multiplex using them.
The ease of adjusting current with the switcher can be a problem if there's a "fiddler" in the booth. (Fiddler in the Booth - could be a movie in that...) It is important to set the internal maximum current so they can't overdrive the lamp too much.

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 10-15-2001 12:09 PM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dave said: "It is important to set the internal maximum current so they can't overdrive the lamp too much."

Great idea. How in the world do you do that?

My first theatre had the new Strong switchers. I loved the potentiometer for adjusting current, rather than messing with the taps. I also loved being able to change out the whole thing, rather that having to change diodes or something else if the rectifier goes bad. And I love the trouble lights!!! However, within a year, we had three go bad. I have heard similar reports from other theatres. (Someone told me he had 3 go bad in one week!) So I guess there's a little give-and-take either way you go.

As far as trying to trouble-shoot one, you're not supposed to! They are not user serviceable. I suppose that's why they're so easy to change out. Just pop in your spare and send the old one back to Strong.

I don't know of any major problems with the high reactance rectifiers.

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Dave Bird
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 777
From: Perth, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 10-15-2001 12:14 PM      Profile for Dave Bird   Author's Homepage   Email Dave Bird   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What is the cost difference generally between the two types?
Also, what is it that eventually causes failure? Hours? I have seen a drive-in locally has just gone with a switcher. Pretty risky, considering it's one-screen/ one-projector. Of course, not a lot of "hours per year" will go on that unit.

I still think that my as-yet-unbuilt outdoor will have two-projectors
with hour-long reels at the ready, that way if one were to go down, at least you could keep the screen lit with minor inconvenience of a
thread-up mid-show. What would you do?

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-15-2001 02:37 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 

"but then they're so cool-running, light, and efficient. What's your take?"

Shut down the fans in one and you'll change your mind! They actually get quite hot with out a fan and will shut down. In the switchers its the fan that keeps em cool. Older Strong switchers were notorious for overheating when you used them in a booth that was hot say in the summer. I've been to booths that hvae the tops removed and have a 3 foot window fan blowing on them!

In any rectifier that has diodes, the diodes are only rated for so mnay thermal cycles before they will mechanicaly fail. I have seen alot of this in older Christie rectifiers and some Irems but mainly those rectifiers that have no cooling fan. Also diodes that use that green epoxy type seal are prone to literally fall apart after a number of years. Using diodes that are glass sealed will allow much longer life and more thermal cycles. Even if a rectifier is fan cooled the diodes still go through this thermal cycling at the silicon chip. There is some thermal resistance in the diode itself so the actual silicon chip itself runs a bit hotter than the diode casing, and there is another thermal joint adding resistance between the case and heatsink. Lotys of heatsinking and or fans are the only way to reduce this failure but you will never see a rectifier that never ever fails at some time in its useful life.
Mark @ GTS


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Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2321
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 10-15-2001 05:55 PM      Profile for Dave Macaulay   Email Dave Macaulay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Internal current adjustment on Strong switchers...
I don't have the manual here, but it's a trimpot on the control board. I'll look tomorrow if I remember and see if it's got a name or number.
I've had to turn a few of them up to get 7kW current, and a few down so that 5kW lamps couldn't be blasted.
A useless though interesting note... I was looking at a switcher manual today and the only part that isn't referenced or listed in the parts drawing is that control card, it's shown but no arrow or number. Hmmm.

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Rick Long
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 759
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 10-15-2001 07:55 PM      Profile for Rick Long   Email Rick Long   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Our experience over the first year of operating with switching rectifiers was not all that good. There were a few failures.

The newer Strong consoles we have been receiving in the last couple of years or so, however, have been equipped with intake fans on the non-operating side of the door. These fans seem to help greatly on cutting back on the number of failures.

In problematic booths, (those that have had 2 or more failures)(usually 7K), I have added fans to these older consoles and, touch wood (knocking on head), have not had a failure in over two years on these units.

I would like to know, for those of you who have experienced failures with switching rectifiers, did they fail at the start of a show or during a performance?


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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 10-15-2001 08:50 PM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I had Strong switchers with Highlight II consols that had the fans on the non-op side. When the equipment was about six months old, one of my switchers faild during the show. Sometime within the next year (I don't remember when exactly), 2 more went out. Don't know if it was during a show, because neither was on my shift.

Eventually just about any peice of equipment will fail. I expect rectifiers to be no exception. But the problem, at least in my experience, is how quickly they fail. 3 in a year?? Seems rather unreasonable, if you ask me. Then again, I've heard of theatres that have had no problems.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 10-15-2001 11:07 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Personally, I hate the switchers. Are they named because you have to "switch them out"? Making an conventional power supply compatible to a switcher's configuration can be a little tricky sometimes.

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 10-15-2001 11:13 PM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No, they are not named "switchers" because you switch them out. There are hard wired switchers, too. They are "switching power supplies," that electronically convert the AC to DC using printed circuit boards. See the thread entitled "Strong Super Lume-X Problem" for explanations by guys who know a helluva lot more what they are talking about than I do.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 10-15-2001 11:28 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ken, what I posted was just a wise crack towards the switchers, primarly because I don't like them.


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Rick Long
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 759
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 10-16-2001 12:44 AM      Profile for Rick Long   Email Rick Long   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I understand what Paul means. No longer can you simply carry a pocket-full of diodes and be pretty sure of affecting a repair to a downed rectifier. These switchers ARE complicated.

Still, I have had some luck (and learned a lot) with repairing them (not without some help on finding information from some of the people here on Film-Tech). I agree with an earlier statement Paul made, in another post, about it being easier to send them back to the factory for repair.

However, with the hassles of getting them through customs (CAN. - U.S), plus the time incurred being without a spare rectifier, and no, we don't yet have 7K reactance types on hand, not to mention the logistics of getting a heavier than sin reactance type up to the booth on a Saturday afternoon to save a show for the weekend, I have no choice.


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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 10-16-2001 01:03 AM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A real nice advantage about "conventional" set-ups: When you have a spare lamphouse and power supply on wheels and ready to go:

If you blow a power supply or a lamp, just simply grab your spare power supply and lamp, drag it over to the station, throw the lamphouse on the pedistal, plug it in, light-'er up, and you are back on the screen!

Consoles, well, you are basically screwed if it was a switcher or any power supply and/or lamp failure.

Funny thing is, when Regal bought our theater, they acted like I committed an unforgivable sin by having a spare lamphouse and power supply sitting on a dolly "ready to go". They threw it away! What idiots!

Word also got to me that shortly after they bought our theater, (and I was no longer part of their HS operation,) two day's worth of shows were lost because of an exciter lamp failure. Yes - a stupid exciter lamp burned out! I was told nobody was allowed to change it.


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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 10-16-2001 08:49 AM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A spare power supply is always nice to have. It's necessary if you have switchers. But why a spare lamphouse??

The Regal techs do not like people messing with what they don't know. Did you have actual exciter bulbs, or LED's? If the were bulbs, that seems a little ridiculous, but if they were LED's I can understand. My last tech didn't even want the operators changing diodes for fear they might screw something up. I suppose I can understand his reasoning.

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