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Author Topic: Strong Super Lume-X Problem
Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 10-13-2001 02:20 PM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ok, have a Strong Super Lume-X lamphouse with a Strong power supply. It won't strike. Not as in it tries and can't ignite, but as in it won't even try to strike. There is power getting to the power supply. We have already checked all connections and nothing is loose, all safety switches that prevent the lamphouse from igniting when the service panels are open are depressed.

We've already put in an emergency call to MTS and he's gone through some ideas, but like any good manager I'm using 'all available resources.' So guys, you've come through for me in the past, HELP!

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Greg Pauley
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 173
From: Huntington, WV, USA
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 10-13-2001 02:57 PM      Profile for Greg Pauley   Author's Homepage   Email Greg Pauley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dustin:

Have you checked the air flow switch located in the back of the lamphouse? Sometimes dirt gets on the switch arm causing the switch not to work. You wrote that you had already checked the safety switch on the lamphouse door. Is the contactor being activated in the xenon power supply? You should hear a click from the power supply whenever you flip the manual switch on the back of the lamphouse. If you don't hear the contactor you might try swapping a power supply from another theatre?

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 10-13-2001 03:01 PM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Do you have a Strong "high-reactance" rectifier, or a Strong switcher? (High reactance type is the one with taps and diodes and large capacitors. The switcher is the pretty black box with a handle and lots of lights on it that can easily be removed by disconnecting 3 cables.) If it's a switcher, check the trouble lights on the actual switcher. All of the green ones should be lit (with the exception of the one labled "Go", it only lights when the bulb is actually on) and none of the red ones should be lit. If any of the red lights are on, the switcher needs to be replaced and sent back to Strong for for service.

If it's not a switcher, I don't know what to tell you that you haven't already tried.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 10-13-2001 03:02 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Like Greg said, first things first. Do you hear a "thump" eminating from the power supply when you have the ON/OFF switch in the ON position and you flip the AUTO/MANUAL switch to MANUAL?

Remember, not only do you have the access door safety switch, but there is a microswitch right in front of the blower behind the reflector and possibly an airflow switch right above the bulb on your exhaust too. Assuming no one has been rewiring the unit lately, if the blower is running behind the reflector, you have power going to the lamphouse. Be sure and check that as well, because I've seen many SLX units with a 110 plug instead of obtaining it's power from the supply.

Also, not all switchers have pretty lights on them. Just look at the model number plate and post the model.


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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-13-2001 03:05 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There is a manual ignite button on top,under a small pop out cover. Try that. If it does not work then there is either a safety switch problem, or rectifier problem. If the manual striker works but the auto does not its possible that the relay in the back of the lamphouse has failed. Fortunately this relay has two sets of contacts and one set is unused so it can be jumpered over on the PCB. I've done this many times. The relay is a special high impedence coil so it'll have to come form Strong if ya want to replace it. Also to determint if the rectifier is bad, check the no load voltage. Should be well over 100 volts DC to be able to ignite properly.
MArk @ GTS

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Greg Pauley
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 173
From: Huntington, WV, USA
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 10-13-2001 03:11 PM      Profile for Greg Pauley   Author's Homepage   Email Greg Pauley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This may sound stupid, but I've seen this happen on the Strong. Check the intake fan on the left side of the lamphouse and make sure that a piece of paper or other object isn't blocking the airflow. This is one of my favorite tricks whenever I do training on this lamphouse.

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Ken Layton
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1452
From: Olympia, Wash. USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 10-13-2001 06:28 PM      Profile for Ken Layton   Email Ken Layton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Have you actually checked the airflow switch and the door switches with an ohmeter? Just because a switch clicks doesn't mean the contacts inside it are good.

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Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2321
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 10-13-2001 06:54 PM      Profile for Dave Macaulay   Email Dave Macaulay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If you push the "volts" button near the meter and get no reading, the rectifier is not working. This could be the safety switches, a bad rectifier, or the breaker is off. Or some problem with the wiring, but that's unlikely if nobody has been tinkering.
If you get around 100 volts then you probably have a bad autostrike board or relay. The manual strike button should work.
- Check inside the rectifier if it's a high reactance model. The AC wires at the contactor are often burnt up, if one is a little loose it gets mighty hot and eventually doesn't make contact.
Make sure the power is off before opening it though! The normal wiring scheme supplies AC to the lamphouse from the rectifier but it can be wired with a separate lamphouse feed, so be careful.
- the transformer that supplies the lamphouse AC can burn out, if you've got good 3 phase (assuming a 3 ph rectifier) but no 110 Ac on terminals 2 and 4 then that might be it. Power goes to the l/h on 2 and 4 and comes back to the control contactor on 5 and 6. 3 is just a convenience for automation and might not be used.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 10-13-2001 07:40 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If the contactor in the power supply does not close, then I would suspect a malfunction in the safety interlock circuit.

If the contactor does close, and your boost circuit is goofy, there won't be enough to allow the igniter to fire. If your open circuit voltage is correct and the igniter does not fire, I would suspect a mafunctioning igniter.

Just for shits and grins, did you press the manual ignition button? It is underneath the top cover of the lamp, access is through a small hole which may have a chrome 1/2 inch knock-out cover. Pry that thing loose with your thumb nail or a screwdriver, and the manual ignition button is right under it. (oops - looks like Mark beat me to this one. )


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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 10-13-2001 09:02 PM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Dustin:

Have you checked the air flow switch located in the back of the lamphouse? Sometimes dirt gets on the switch arm causing the switch not to work. You wrote that you had already checked the safety switch on the lamphouse door. Is the contactor being activated in the xenon power supply? You should hear a click from the power supply whenever you flip the manual switch on the back of the lamphouse. If you don't hear the contactor you might try swapping a power supply from another theatre?


And the cookie goes to Greg . The MTS tech actually suggested that right after I threw up this thread. We were so busy today I didn't have time to reply that the problem had been solved. Thanks to all of you though for the replys. Needless to say I've read all of them in case of future problems.

And yes, there was no 'thunp' when hiting the munual ignitor .

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Dave Bird
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 777
From: Perth, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 10-14-2001 10:08 AM      Profile for Dave Bird   Author's Homepage   Email Dave Bird   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Novice alert! Is that what's meant by the term "switcher",
it's easily switched (ie-just plug and play)? Thanks.

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 10-14-2001 11:45 AM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I used to think that's what it meant, but no. "Switcher" does not refer to its ability to be changed out. There are hard-wired switchers. (The one I described above with the handle and pretty little lights is the newer Strong switcher. Other brands may be hard-wired.) A "switcher," or switching power supply, "switches" the AC to DC electronically by means of printed circuit boards and things like that. I don't know if there are actually diodes in it. But if there are, they are not changed out by the operator. There are no user-serviceable parts inside. At least not in the ones I've seen. That is the best explanation I can come up with. Anyone care to elaborate?


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Bob Peticolas
Film Handler

Posts: 73
From: Mesilla, New Mexico
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 10-14-2001 12:21 PM      Profile for Bob Peticolas   Author's Homepage   Email Bob Peticolas   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A "switcher" power supply converts your incoming 60hz AC line (110 to 240V) to DC with a full-wave diode bridge. This DC voltage is used to run an oscillator at a very high frequency, say around 100,000hz (or cycles per second for the old farts). This high-frequency AC is then stepped down to 27 to 30 volts with a transformer. A diode bridge (like the ones we have grown to love) converts the AC to DC. This DC voltage is then sent to the lamp.

In a "brute force" power supply the AC line is stepped down to 27volts with a large step-down transformer and fed to the diodes. For a 2,000 watt supply this transformer can weigh up to a hundred pounds (a lot of iron). Then a heavy (tens of pounds) choke coil is needed, followed by a few filter condensers. In a "switcher" supply, the transformer can weigh around five (5) pounds. The higher frequency reduces the amount of iron needed. (In fact it's not iron but iron particles compressed into a "donut" shape. Much more effcient than flat iron laminations bolted together.)

The output voltage is monitored by a electronic circuit that varies the frequency of the AC fed to the transformer thus ensuring that the output voltage is very constant reguardless of variations in the input voltage and the load current. This also allows changing the bulb current with a small control resistance instead of moving taps on a transformer with heavy-duty switches (or a screwdriver with all power off!) or having series pass regulators which control output voltage by converting volts you don't need into heat!

Of course, this adds a lot of complexity to the supply vs. a simple transformer-diode bridge-choke-filter cap. supply, but the advantages are worth it. Smaller means less heat, better regulation and control. Every Personal Computer uses a "switcher" in it's power supply, so the technology is very well developed.


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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 10-14-2001 12:25 PM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, I am not that familure with these types of power supplies, but I would say that they still use diodes but not what alot of us are familure with...they are probably intergrated on the circuit boards...Diods are required to keep things flowing in one direction...

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Ken Layton
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1452
From: Olympia, Wash. USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 10-14-2001 12:32 PM      Profile for Ken Layton   Email Ken Layton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Power MOSFET transistors do the switching in the switching regulator supplies.

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