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Author Topic: Connecting DVD to CP-55
Neil Chue Hong
Film Handler

Posts: 19
From: Edinburgh, Scotland, UK
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 10-08-2001 08:15 AM      Profile for Neil Chue Hong   Author's Homepage   Email Neil Chue Hong   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi,

a couple of quick questions...

I'd like to connect a DVD player to our Dolby CP-55 (with SRA-5) so that the sound from the player is processed through the matrix.

Q1) Will this work? (is there a difference in the matrix between Dolby on DVDs, and Dolby on film?)

Q2) Where do I connect it? The non-sync L/R input appears not to process the sound - should it? From the manuals, it appears that the aux input requires a separate processor to split it into L/C/R/S first.

Over to the experts!

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 10-08-2001 09:21 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Though I haven't had to do such a thing yet...


On a CP-55 with an SRA-5 SR adapter...presumming you have installed it the current method (the SRA-5 connects to the DT inputs on the backplane of the CP-55 and format 03's button is now the format 05 (SR)) I would have the DVD player come in through the SRA-5's Non-Sync inputs and switch the SRA-5 between Non-Sync and film...you will need to select "SR" still to have the CP-55 look at the SRA-5 as the source but otherwise it should work...watch your levels though.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Michael Brown
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1522
From: Bradford, England
Registered: May 2001


 - posted 10-08-2001 12:18 PM      Profile for Michael Brown   Email Michael Brown   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Doesn't a dvd output in Dolby surround and a cp-55 decode Dolby stereo?

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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 10-08-2001 02:48 PM      Profile for Pete Naples   Email Pete Naples   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve, I have recently done exactly this in two screens at a local cinema and it works a treat.
Connect the DVD O/P to the non-sync L-R I/P on the SRA5. I fitted a little toggle switch to switch the SRA5 into non-sync and out of SR. Had to turn the non-sync level pot full up to get any sensible output level.
I set the DVD players audio output to 'Dolby Digital 2 channel", which is Pro-Logic, it really does sound quite nice.

Neil, when did EUFS get Dolby?? Why didn't I install it??? Hmmm??? Support your local engineer!

Michael, I think you have your terminology a little confused. The CP55 is 4.1, more commonly known as Dolby Stereo, in it's native state it decodes L,C,R with or without surround, with A type noise reduction. With the addition of an SRA5 it can decode Dolby SR prints. The best way to connect the SRA5 involves some backplane mods and re-programming the 03 Dolby Stero Without Surround button to be 05 Dolby SR.

With the DVD player I set it's output to be 2 channel, which is Pro-Logic encoded. To all intents and purposes this is the same as as the optical sound track after it's been processed by the NR modules.

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Michael Brown
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1522
From: Bradford, England
Registered: May 2001


 - posted 11-27-2001 10:32 AM      Profile for Michael Brown   Email Michael Brown   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So essentially there is no difference between analog Dolby on say VHS and analog dolby on 35mm film???

If this is the case then why do cinemas buy several thousand pound dolby processors when they could pick up a home pro logic decoder for a couple of hundred pounds?


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Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 11-27-2001 10:54 AM      Profile for Josh Jones   Author's Homepage   Email Josh Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
two words, Noise Reduction

Josh

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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 11-27-2001 11:57 AM      Profile for Aaron Sisemore   Email Aaron Sisemore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
>>So essentially there is no difference between analog Dolby on say VHS and analog dolby on 35mm film???<

Josh got it right, the two formats use different noise reduction systems: 35mm film uses A-type or SR, and VHS uses B-type (same as cassette tapes). The matrixed tracks are basically the same however, and the later version Cat 150 matrix cards use the same Pro-Logic decoder chip as many home units, but without the proper NR it is not going to decode properly.

-Aaron

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 11-27-2001 02:24 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually, VHS Hi-Fi does not use any Dolby noise reduction. You're thinking of the old twin linear tracks back in the early 80's that split the single mono track (still used today) into two tracks and utilized Dolby B NR to combat hiss. To my knowledge, it's been almost 15 years since the last stereo linear VHS machines have been manufactured that used Dolby B NR.

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 11-27-2001 03:55 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Don't forget that the professional cinema processors also have 24-band EQ settings for each channel, removable PC cards, (for field servicing) both A and SR noise reduction, an optical preamp, back-up capablity, and (depending on the exact processor) other extra features a home user would probably not need.

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Patrick de Groot
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 161
From: Sprang-Capelle, Netherlands
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 12-02-2001 03:18 PM      Profile for Patrick de Groot   Email Patrick de Groot   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, you really don't have to own a dolby cinema processor to get good sound. I guess they just have to make money by selling them at these ridiculous prices because the professional cinema market is much smaller then the home cinema audio market...

You can get very good sound by using
-2 channel microphone pre-amp with some kind of noise reduction (threshold,..)
-pro logic decoder
-equalizer
-some good home amplifiers (which is good enough for not to big screens)

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-02-2001 03:33 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
threshold noise reduction only helps remove background noise
It does not retore the dynamic range of the track
Dolby Noise reduction both A and SR use a form of companding that is complementary ie the amount of compression going in is the amount of expansion needed going out
Unlike regular Companders (DBX and the like) they are a threshold base and multibanded and in the case of SR a few more goodies thrown in
While it works okay for a home enviroment it definitly isn't "film done right" for a paying audience
With the low cost of used DOlby 360 NR units they would work well (with 280T cards for sr) with your prologic unit. One must remember that there are varing degrees of accuracy in prologic units and in headroom.
Also a solarcell would like to see a virtual ground preamp or one with a very low impedance and most mic preamps are much higher

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Patrick de Groot
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 161
From: Sprang-Capelle, Netherlands
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 12-02-2001 03:47 PM      Profile for Patrick de Groot   Email Patrick de Groot   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It is nice that dolby A and SR are designed that they can be played on equipment which is not dedicated to this type of noise reduction. Of course you get a degraded sound quality, but it can be good enough for professional presentation if good equipment is used and tested. I really would like people to try it out just for the fun of it and listen to the sound it can produce!

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-02-2001 03:59 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
At present Dolby CP50's can be bought on ebay for $250.00 USD or less and the extra costs is to upgrade to SR
A decent Prologic unit 3 1/3octave EQ units a Stereo noise reduction unit and preamp cannot be had for that
Also with all seperate devices they are usually unbalanced in/out and that can lead to all sorts of ground problems

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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 12-02-2001 04:38 PM      Profile for Pete Naples   Email Pete Naples   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ayuppers!

Cinema Processors are just that, CINEMA processors, with all the features and facilities designed for professional cinema use. Domestic processors are just that, DOMESTIC!

I once made the mistake of getting involved with a cinema that was having a sound system installed with a domestic pro-logic unit at it's heart. The equipment had been sold to them by a stage equipment supply company, and when they started to have problems I got involved. First problem, the cell didn't like the pre-amps they used, two brands of pre-amps later and we got usable signal, second hassle, the surround delay on the processor wasn't long enough for the theatre (being much larger than the average sitting room), install an outboard delay unit, and we get round that one. No on board eq', so three graphis eq's were banged in. After all that it sounded, well mediocre, and between what the client had originally spent plus getting me involved, they might as well have bought the real thing in the first place. It's all now about to be replaced with an Ultra Stereo. If I ever get the chance to go down that road again I don't think I'll bother.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-02-2001 05:50 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There were a couple of CP100's on ebay a while back that went for a about 100.00 and in fact there is very little wrong with those still for analogue playback. Just a little more complex than some are used to

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