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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Torn Perfs (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Torn Perfs
Joe Beres
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 606
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 09-29-2001 05:28 PM      Profile for Joe Beres   Email Joe Beres   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I just wanted to take a survey. How do you deal with torn perfs on an incoming print? A singel torn perf? two or three? several frames worth? several feet? I'm sure most of us have encountered them all.

incidentally, i am currently inspecting a print of raging bull. reels 5-7 (i'm working backwards through the reels) have been ok (other than the first 4 feet of reel 6 being upsidedown), but reel four was interesting. About a third of the way into the reel there was a splice, and the film was flipped so that the soundtrack was on the oppsite side shortly after there were several sections that had varying amounts of torn perfs. I've seen it before, and I've seen worse, but that is what sparked the question.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-29-2001 06:08 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Depending on a lot of things I will either use a cinebug or I v notchs

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 09-29-2001 06:17 PM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have used a cinebug before and it is a piece of crap.......I would much rather stretch the film out on a bench and roll out some spliceing tape over the sprocket hole area of the film and take a razor blade and trim down the edge of the film. then punch the holes using the splicer...this works better because the splicing tape sticks better to the film than the cinebug tape.....

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Joe Beres
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 606
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 09-29-2001 06:20 PM      Profile for Joe Beres   Email Joe Beres   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What exactly is a cinebug? I assume it's similar to a perfix machine?

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-29-2001 06:28 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It is a poor mans perfix.
If the tape is fresh and the print clean i have had no problems with it sticking

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Per Hauberg
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 883
From: Malling, Denmark
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 09-29-2001 06:46 PM      Profile for Per Hauberg   Author's Homepage   Email Per Hauberg   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The trouble with perffix is, that if You have as mentioned several feet - lots of feet, maybe - the reel will be so "heavy" on one side, that it will give You focus-trouble, maybe even trouble running the film - and even more trouble, when the print is de-realed onto core (if You still use that in the states...)

Perffix is a small miracle for short footage repair - and no more.
Besides its quite expensive, if You're ment to keep the distributors prints fit for fight that way...

Per

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 09-30-2001 12:17 AM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ok, this just goes to show you how much I know. What is perfix and cinebug?

I ususally cut the frames out. Am I not supposed to do that??

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 09-30-2001 12:25 AM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
they are devices that repair the sprocket holes.....if you only have an occasional broken sprocket just put a piece of splicing tape over it....If there are several broken sprockets you can use these types of devices to fix it.....they use a special type of tape designed to go on just the sprocket holes.

Gordon is right....you need to make sure the area you are applying the perf tape is clean as possable and the tape is new not old....

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Mitchell Cope
Master Film Handler

Posts: 256
From: Overland Park, KS, United States
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-30-2001 01:43 PM      Profile for Mitchell Cope   Email Mitchell Cope   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gordon, tell us about V notches. I've got an old reel that has a torn perforation about every 12 inches over about 300 feet of film. I don't want to splice or "perfix" that much film. Should I V notch and/or just keep my fingers crossed?

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-30-2001 01:45 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
V notching is well cover in Richardsons and in one of the old film notes from Kodak
It requires some skill to do properly and some machines don't like them

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Bruce McGee
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1776
From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular.
Registered: Aug 1999


 - posted 09-30-2001 07:28 PM      Profile for Bruce McGee   Email Bruce McGee   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Holmes 8 has no troubles with notched sprocket holes.

I've notched film since the late 70's and have only seen a few that had problems in the projector.

I'm working on an old IB feature that has nicked spocket holes every foot or so all through all of the even-numbered reels. Most of the repairs have been done using splicing tape, but some have had to be notched carefully. It takes time, but when I'm finished, it will run just fine.

Now, if this print was received for a run in a theatre, I'd demand a replacement print, pronto!

I know that you guys dont have the luxury of time when you inspect prints.

I am sorry for this.

"Integrity Inspected?" Yeah, right.


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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-30-2001 08:40 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bruce I wasn't mentioning any specific machine just that there are some that don't like v notching and for no apparent reason
I had a booth with twin XL's and one machine had no problem the other sure did

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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 09-30-2001 11:08 PM      Profile for Aaron Sisemore   Email Aaron Sisemore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Some platters will rip a V-notched print to shreds if you aren't careful. Try to avoid any extreme twists or edge dragging.

Perf durability is the #1 best all time good thing about Estar film, IMO...

-Aaron


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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 09-30-2001 11:26 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"V" notching was the recommended cure for checked out sprocket perfs during the old carbon arc days in the US Navy. That was taught in the MPO school. If memory serves me correctly, the maximum of V notching was two adjacent sprocket holes. Any more than that, it was recommended the frame be cut out.

Since the advent of the polyester prints, I never saw a "checked out sprocket hole."

Paul


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Bruce McGee
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1776
From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular.
Registered: Aug 1999


 - posted 10-01-2001 10:09 AM      Profile for Bruce McGee   Email Bruce McGee   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Understood, Gordon.

Is it my imagination, or is IB film more prone to having brittle base stock? I've got several IB features that have alot of minor damage here and there along the perf edges, and occasionally there are runs of perf breaks along the center of the holes. I get the breaks aligned properly, and lay on the splicing tape. I dont see this much with my acetate Eastman, Fuji, Agfa, etc. stuff. Think it's just the old age of the IB print showing? My youngest IB print is from 1971, and the oldest is from 1960.

Is the old age idea right?

FilmGuard has done a nice job on these prints. Before FG, I would discover new perf edge breaks sometimes when rewinding a just-run print. Now, nothing. All the guides and rollers on the Holmeses are free and correctly adjusted. This damage was random, like possibly old damage that finally gave up and broke.

I assume that the FG is either super-lubricating the print so it slides through the machine, or it's actually soaking into the base and improving its flexability.

I just ordered bottle #4...

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