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Author Topic: Christie sound warble
Mike Colley
Film Handler

Posts: 25
From: Dacula, GA
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 08-20-2001 11:05 PM      Profile for Mike Colley   Email Mike Colley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
One of the theatres I work at is having a problem with warbling sound on Christie P35GP red LED soundheads. The manual says to thread the soundhead with the guide rollers just floating off of the sound drum. This evening, the manger came running into the booth stating there was a warble in one auditorium. His solution was to jam a q-tip between the two guide rollers, forcing them wide open. He claims that the only way to eliminate the warble consistently is by threading with almost no tension around the drum. This is contrary to my previous experience with various other sound heads. I also work at another theatre with Christie white LED heads. No problems there! It seems to me that this manger is compensating for some prevalent mechanical problem with his q-tip method. The sound drum seems to turn freely so I don't think bearings are bad. What do you guys think? Bevan? Thanks in advance.

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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 08-21-2001 04:11 AM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We had the same problem. The manager at that theatre has the 'solution' almost right. Thread with the sound head so that the film is just tight, but the rollers are not floating. Then put a rubber band around the rollers so that it pulls them toward each other. This will work all right until you can get the upgrade kit ordered from Christie and installed, with includes among other things a new sound drum with a rubber ring imbedded in it and extra long arms for the rollers.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-21-2001 04:41 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Change the bearings on the sound drum. If that doesn't do it, change out the bearings on the guide arms as well.

Also, is the air pot broken?

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Mike Colley
Film Handler

Posts: 25
From: Dacula, GA
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 08-21-2001 07:49 AM      Profile for Mike Colley   Email Mike Colley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad:

The airpot seemed to be OK. That shaft was still secure. I'll try the bearings. What's with this upgrade kit? I guess our projection supplier can give me some further information. Thanks for the suggestions, guys.

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Aldo Baez
Master Film Handler

Posts: 266
From: USA
Registered: Mar 2001


 - posted 08-21-2001 12:52 PM      Profile for Aldo Baez     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You guys may think this is wierd, but the only way at our theatre for the sound to go digital 99% of the time is when we thread the film *loose* (the first loosest sprocket as you move the film back). I know it seems really dumb, and my manager really really hates it, but this weekend for example we had the warbling on Rush Hour 2, I looked at the threading and it was threaded "just tight", I stopped the movie, moved it one back so it was loose, and magically we get a 2/3 reading and no more warble! And to think there is a brand new penthouse reader that has been sitting in the booth for almost half a year because our tech hasn't come to install it.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-21-2001 02:28 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
If the bearings are in good shape, you should be able to thread a couple of perforations loose and the slack of film above the soundhead should not bounce.

Also, it is very easy to adjust tension on a Christie while the film is running. Just open the holdback sprocket's pad roller and gently lift the film up off of it with 2 fingers on the edges of the film. Start at the failsafe and work up and over (to decrease tension) or start at the top of the sprocket and work your way across and down (to increase tension). Of course, try this out one afternoon with a junk trailer loaded up before you do it on a real show, but the trick can come in handy in the event that a show is running and the tension is set incorrectly. It also makes it easy to check SRD basement reader tracking on the fly against differing tensions.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-21-2001 08:33 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The easiest thing to do is just change the projector out for something else. That'll take care of all your woes for some time to come. There's a projector here in SLC nicknamed "Mother" and a bunch of projectors at other locations named Christie. Why on earth would anyone install a woman to run film on is beyond me.
Mark @ GTS

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-21-2001 10:50 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I second Brad's motion on the bearings.
In a lot of the Christie projectors in my neck of the woods there have been a rash of bad bearings causing all sorts of problems, including warble.

Make sure you check the bearings in the lateral guide rollers. They love to "blow their guts" all over the place, leaving the rollers to wobble as they run. I have even had one freeze completly. Judging by your description of the "Q-Tip Trick" it sounds a lot like the "screwdriver trick" that people in one theatre were doing. Replacing the bearings was the solution.

While you are at it, be sure to order yourself a whole "tube" of those bearings. You're probably going to find that, one by one, the bearings in the rest of your projectors are going to start taking a shit on you as well.
Christie told us that we have to OIL those bearings regularly but, for the life of me, I can't imagine how the hell we are going to get people to start doing that when it's all we can do go get them to clean the projectors at the end of each night. (Let alone at the end of each SHOW!)

BTW: I vote that Page 1 of the Christie projector manual should read:
ATTENTION:
THIS PROJECTOR MUST BE THOROUGHLY CLEANED AFTER EACH SHOWING OR ELSE IT WILL SPITE YOU IN ALL SORTS OF NASTY WAYS!

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Mike Colley
Film Handler

Posts: 25
From: Dacula, GA
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 08-21-2001 11:31 PM      Profile for Mike Colley   Email Mike Colley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Randy:

This wobble you describe, would it be a visible warpage during operation? Or more of an uneven movement of the guide rollers? Was your success in replacing all three sets of bearings? I guess you've never dealt with this upgrade kit that was previously mentioned. I've heard of some extended length guide rollers, but have never seen them in action.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-21-2001 11:57 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sometimes the bearings just feel like they are full of gravel. Other times they seem to literally explode. On one occasion the bearing was so badly "blown" that the roller wobbled visibly on the shaft. On another, it froze up completely and wouldn't turn at all.

Basically just inspect them. If there are problems they might be appearent just by looking at them. Wiggle them (gently) and turn them back and forth.
Sometimes they feel like they have "gravel" inside them or they get a hitch in them that causes them to "bump" as they spin. It's not hard to tell good bearings from bad... good ones spin smoothly... bad ones don't.
If you have any doubts you can compare with a projector that's running right. Go to the "suspect" projector and inspect a bearing and give it a spin. Then go to the other one and do the same. Note any differecnes. It's not hard to tell the difference.

You can replace the bearings on the guide rollers easily with regular tools if you are careful. The bearings on the sound drum shouldn't be touched unless you can do a complete A-Chain alignment afterward. OK, truth is you should probably A-Chain the machine any time you work anywhere near the sound head but IF you work carefully you can replace the rollers without it.

The upgrade kit works pretty well. You should probably get it. Especially if you have a Dolby Digital basement reader. It's not THAT hard to install but you do have to almost completely disassemble things to do it. It's not for the faint of heart.

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Jon Bartow
Master Film Handler

Posts: 287
From: Massachusetts
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 08-22-2001 06:28 AM      Profile for Jon Bartow   Email Jon Bartow   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Often one can not feel that the bearings on the impedance drum shaft are bad. But, first thing: check the belts. If they weave at all, are worn at all, or there is a lot of belt "dust" in the back of the projector: replace them (all three just for good measure). Make sure that you clean any gunk out of the teeth in the gears (pulleys). It is possible that this will at least make you problem diminish. Next, replace the impedance drum shaft bearings (part number 598931-122). Then replace the arms with the longer version (sorry I don't know the part number) It is possible to replace the arms with the longer ones in about 10 min without taking the whole thing apart, but you need someone to show you how to do it first. If Cost is going to be an issue you can try just changing the bearings on the current rollers (in addition to the belts and impedance bearings) without changing the arms. Remember, if you change any of the bearings make sure that either you ar someone else is there who can check the alignment of the sound head. (It would really suck if you chaged a bad bearing and then had a projector that had no sound at all)
Hope this helps!
Jonathan

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-22-2001 03:27 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
One nice thing about the way you do an A-Chain on a Christie is that the lateral adjustment is done by moving the cell instead of the film. The guide rollers are supposed to be in a fixed position and not move.

If you are careful to note the way the rollers are installed before you take them out you should be able to put them back the way you found them with little trouble. You could get an alignment guage from Christie and that'll make it easy to put them back right. If you can't get one of those you can use a caliper and lock it in to the measurement between the bulkhead and the inner edge of the roller flange before you take it out.

I discovered another way to measure the roller placement completely by accident one day. I had a Christie alignment guage in my shirt pocket. I reached in to get it but I had to take my pack of cigartettes out to get it. I just happened to lay the guage down on top of the pack and notice that they are the same width. So, I HAD to try it. Y'Know what? It works! I'm sure the alignment guage is more accurate but this trick will do you in a pinch.



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Mike Colley
Film Handler

Posts: 25
From: Dacula, GA
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 08-22-2001 04:03 PM      Profile for Mike Colley   Email Mike Colley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Randy:

You're working undercover for Philip Morris aren't you? Maybe I should try a pack of Chewley's Gum instead!

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-22-2001 04:53 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No, I'm not. The proof is simple...
WinstonŽ cigarettes are made by R.J. Reynolds!
I live about 1/2 hour's drive from Winston Salem which is the home of R.J.R. Why would I want to advertise for the enemy?

Seriously, Is a pack of gum the same size?

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Mike Colley
Film Handler

Posts: 25
From: Dacula, GA
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 08-22-2001 10:27 PM      Profile for Mike Colley   Email Mike Colley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry, that was a vague "Clerks" reference.

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