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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » THX and DTS a bad combination? (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: THX and DTS a bad combination?
Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-01-2001 11:10 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
It has happened AGAIN. The Rush Hour 2 disc does not have the THX audio files on it!

Come on DTS, what's the problem here? Last I heard this "would never happen again", and yet here it is happening again on another major summer release. This is just unacceptable. Is it the "there's only enough room for our sound logos because it is a single disc release" thing again? If so, please correct this and send all theaters out a single disc with all of the sound logos and theater chain policies on it so that it can be coupled with the "single disc features" and not degrade the presentation. This really should be done immediately. If that's just not possible, then please start putting those files on all trailer discs. I cannot imagine there wouldn't be enough room on those, but I would personally prefer a stand alone disc.


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Christopher Duvall
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 500
From: Denver, CO
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 08-02-2001 02:18 AM      Profile for Christopher Duvall   Email Christopher Duvall   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It would make total sense for the trailer disc to have the logos as well. I am curious to why this seems to be happening as well Brad. However, to play devil's advocate, New Line may have something behind this as well. They could have had a falling out of sorts with THX or vice versa. Hell, maybe somebody just fell asleep at the wheel at DTS. Ahh crap, I am just ramblin' now. I think I will just sit back and monitor this thread now...

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Jonathan Haglund
Film Handler

Posts: 81
From: Irvine, CA, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 08-02-2001 03:27 AM      Profile for Jonathan Haglund   Author's Homepage   Email Jonathan Haglund   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here's an idea:
Load the various repeating content into a flash device in the DTS unit itself. THX logo's, DTS logo's, and anything else can all certainly be added to the basic unit and upgraded as need be. This would eliminate the need for reserved space on the CD's and possibly lower media costs for movies that just barely make it to 2 disc's.

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Christopher Duvall
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 500
From: Denver, CO
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 08-02-2001 05:27 AM      Profile for Christopher Duvall   Email Christopher Duvall   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A couple of hard drives can be added to do the same trick. Add some flash BIOS capabilities like Jonathan said and when the new trailer disc come out, any upgrades can be made on the fly when those discs are inserted and the THX and DTS logo files can be dumped on the hard drives. The only time the logo trailers will be needed to be put on the trailer discs when there would be new ones produced. Have the DTS unit hardwired in the chipset to accept newer files only unless the operator hits an overide button or such.

Better yet, DTS should start considering to use DVD discs and take advantage of the storage space. They could eliminate alot of the compression that DTS uses now on regular CD's.

Hey Jonathan...maybe we can work for DTS?

Pipe dreams...


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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-02-2001 09:07 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hard drives and DVD's would both require a expense on the part of a theatre to continue useing there system that after the bad CD drive issue I doubt most would be willing to pay for in these tough economic times. Also I don't believe the DVD drives could be slowed down as are the current 32x cd drives read is in software. Also many of the older motherboards could have problems with the newer drives
Also I checked some of the older trailer disks and they had the THX logo on them so all one would have to do is insert one of them in drive c anyway

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-02-2001 09:47 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad, I think what you need to do is to go to work for DTS and get involved with the disk production process. That way there will not be any problems or prints around the world with missing disks. We all know that you can fix em up(for what its worth).
MArk @ GTS

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-02-2001 09:56 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes he can market disk guard to clean the disks as well
In some cases it could aslo be that the producers who pay for the disks have said one disk is cheaper so skip the logos

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-02-2001 11:41 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Gordon,

What is the approximate time frame for those trailer discs where the THX logos were printed on them? I don't think I have any laying around, but it would be worth a shot.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-02-2001 12:24 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The July 31 1998 has THX broadway Grand Simpsons Tex Tex2moo on it as do most of the others of that vintage

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Jonathan Haglund
Film Handler

Posts: 81
From: Irvine, CA, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 08-02-2001 12:53 PM      Profile for Jonathan Haglund   Author's Homepage   Email Jonathan Haglund   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think its quite feasable to upgrade a DTS unit with flash ram. I have never had the joy of opening one, but they are just specialized PC's right? Well PC's have expansion slots. Make an upgrade card with flash ram on it and put the various trailers on it. Then change the DTS ROM to look for that card when it needs that audio.
DVD's do not need to be slowed at all. A DVD drive can be had for under 100$ and will read DVDs at 10x and CDs at 32x. The speed of the drive just helps with seek time. Both formats read just fine at 2x.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-02-2001 12:57 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There is already what amounts to a flash RAM card in DTS processors if yours has had the upgrade done. This card carries the program to slow down the drives to 4X speed(apparent data stream).
MArk @ GTS

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-02-2001 02:22 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Do you guys know how expensive Flash RAM is? You'll be lucky to get 64 Megs worth for under $100. And flash RAM is slow. It would have to be buffered ahead of time into the DTS player's RAM, of which I don't think it has much. It doesn't take the current standard RAM so you can't just go out and but a 1 GIG stick of RAM for $20 or whatever price they sell for nowadays.

Mark, I think that you are thinking of the EPROM, which is Flash RAM (I think), but it carries all that stuff you mention. It is a little black chip.


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Karen Hultgren
Master Film Handler

Posts: 492
From: Agoura Hills, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 08-09-2001 05:18 PM      Profile for Karen Hultgren   Author's Homepage   Email Karen Hultgren   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Lately, the question of THX logos on discs has been coming up again and again. When disc space is limited, we cut off ceritan trailers that we are not obligated to include. This will happen from time to time.

I agree that the artwork should relect when included on the disc. This is being addressed and you should be seeing accurate artwork on all future movie discs.

Karen at DTS

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Rory Burke
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 181
From: Burbank, CA, USA
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 08-09-2001 05:47 PM      Profile for Rory Burke   Email Rory Burke   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Karen....you made yourself clear the first time.....sometimes for x reason...you cant fit...the sound information for all material. It is not because of ignorance. It is not done because of error. You folks are very aware that this information is being omitted. Well then whats the problem? I am not sure I really understand the problem? Is it because a few trailers cant play appropriately? I am not really so sure that it warrants so much attention!!
I can improvise and make needed adjustments for those special ocasions.

Rory

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 08-09-2001 08:14 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The problem as I read it is...

If you have a theatre that has forked over the money to display the THX badge then you will wan't to "blow your own horn", so to speak. That is, you want to display the THX tag before each feature so the entire audience know's that Lucasfilm has given this particular theatre the good housekeeping seal of approval as being a good technical presentation.

DTS, being a quality digital sound system, is likely to find it's way into a THX theatre. Therefore, the THX tags have been recorded on the DTS discs so that the dynamics of both systems can be shown off prior to the feature in addition to merely stating that the feature is in a THX certified auditorium. To that end, is would be considered anti-climatic for an exhibitor who has shelled out the money for not only THX but digital sound to have to run the THX tag in analog (essentially the "backup track" nowadays).

If you do not have a THX certified room...you might not see why this would be such a big deal. I can understand Brad's point. Regardless of the "why" the THX tags are being considered expendable, it might make someone that has a THX room not wish to use a particular digital sound system if they can't be assured that the THX tags are not going to play in digital, regardless of which digital it may be.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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