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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Time for auto-threading 35mm projectors? (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Time for auto-threading 35mm projectors?
John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 07-29-2001 09:35 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Does anyone think that the time for an auto-threading 35mm projector has now arrived?

People generally have always felt that an auto-threading projector would be unreliable, scratch film, etc. But really, can it damage film as bad as the average untrained projectionist?

We were talking about endless platters in another topic. While they are not the greatest thing to happen to film, one reason people bought them is because they would like to reduce labor.

Auto-threading would do much the same; there would be a trade-off in that there are more parts to break, but it would reduce training for operators and help prevent damaged film and refunds (because of mis-threads.)

I'm not really wild about auto-threading projectors, but with the large percentage of poorly trained operators out there, I think that it may be an idea that might actually make sense today. Of course, some digital readers would have to be threaded by themselves (unless basement readers were used.) But, still, it would help.

If Bell and Howell could make a 16mm auto-thread projector stand up to junior high-school kids, surely someone could make one for 35mm use.

That's my great idea for the day...

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Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 07-29-2001 10:16 PM      Profile for Richard Fowler   Email Richard Fowler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It is possible...possibly as a slot load with a microproceesor doing the mental & technical aspects....an example is the LOCPRO dailies projector that Arriflex offers...but then again final cost, limited sales would make it cost more then a Digital projector.
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com

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Matthew Bailey
Master Film Handler

Posts: 461
From: Port Arthur,TX
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 07-29-2001 10:52 PM      Profile for Matthew Bailey   Email Matthew Bailey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Great. I had thoughts & ideas abut an auto-thread platter.
The only things you would need to thread are the take up ring & the payout assembly.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-29-2001 11:33 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Matthew, please enlighten us on your auto-thread platter scheme. This one should be pretty good. I've always had to cheat by using the force to get my platters to self-thread.


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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 07-30-2001 01:26 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"..but then again final cost, limited sales would make it cost more then a Digital projector."

No... couldn't cost $100,000! But, I can easily see it adding $500 to the cost of a regular projector at first; then going down if the idea caught on. If theater owners knew that (for $500 extra) there would be almost no training required to thread a projector, they might go for it. That's about the cost of two damaged reels. Of course, many give no training now, so maybe not!

Bell & Howell did it in 1968 with all mechanical parts and without significantly changing their existing (basic projector) design. Today, with micro-processors, optical sensors, etc. being cheap and polyester film for durablity, couldn't it work?

Oh, well; I'll shut up now...!

PS: Brad, you're looking very young these days!


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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 07-30-2001 01:35 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If an "average untrained projectionist" doesn't even have the mental ability and manual dexterity to learn how to reliably thread a 35mm projector, having an "auto-threading" projector isn't the solution to the problem of film damage. Has the theatre industry really sunk so low that they now require NO technical skill or ability to learn from their projection staff???


------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 07-30-2001 04:40 PM      Profile for Richard Fowler   Email Richard Fowler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
One of my first jobs as a teenager was repairing Bell and Howell auto shredder projectors at a audio visual repair company.......Brad's picture is o.k. but mine ( from my web-site...have to change it...my staff likes it ) looks like Bob Maar impersonating Groucho Marx
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com

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Ben Wales
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 602
From: Southampton. England
Registered: Jul 99


 - posted 07-30-2001 04:43 PM      Profile for Ben Wales   Email Ben Wales   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Having first experience with prints that have been used on super 8mm & 16mm auto lace projectors and the damage they can cause, it will be a bad idea to have 35mm projectors as Auto Lacer's.

35mm is the "Professional format", please lets keep that way!

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-30-2001 05:37 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey, there's nothing wrong with Grocho Marx. Even looking like him could be an asset at times. Especially if you are buying tootsie fritsie ice cream!
Auto threading 35's... Local 110 would never hear of it!
Mark @ GTS


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Will Kutler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1506
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 07-30-2001 06:36 PM      Profile for Will Kutler   Email Will Kutler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kudos, kudos and more kudos to "Film God" Pytlak who did a great job of summing up this thread! We just need to finish it of with a joke from Bob Maar! Well, in the words of the classic Warner Bros. cartoons..."duh...whata ya say George...duh!"

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-30-2001 06:44 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hell, if it's not good enough for Local 110, then it's not good enough for the world!

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 07-30-2001 06:58 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
JP said: "Has the theatre industry really sunk so low that they now require NO technical skill or ability to learn from their projection staff??? "

All kidding aside, I think the answer is yes. But few will acknowledge it. Reminds me of the quote from Dracula; "The vampire's strength is in that no one will believe in him..."

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-30-2001 07:55 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Even if it were possible to build an auto-threading projector that didn't damage film as much as the B&H Autoshredders do, I'm not sure it would help anything.

It's not difficult to teach even the most thick-headed individuals to thread a Simplex or Century. The bigger problem is all the other stuff like print inspection, being able to identify picture and sound formats by looking at a piece of film (including Academy and 1.66, mono, Dolby, digital, etc.), and generally demonstrating what kinds of things tend to need attention (shutter timing, etc.) and what to look for to ensure that the audience is getting what they paid for.

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Bob Maar
(Maar stands for Maartini)


Posts: 28608
From: New York City & Newport, RI
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 07-30-2001 08:41 PM      Profile for Bob Maar   Author's Homepage   Email Bob Maar   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Richard, I am surprised that you havn't figured out that I am really Joe Redifer(you can tell by my nose). Brad is Evans and Joe, yes Joe is John Walsh. John Pytlak is in reality is Mark Gulbrandson who is Will Kutler. Groucho Marks would be delighted if he could join us but he is sitting on your shoulder, to write a critique on how you will accomplish automatic threading. Oh! yes we are all Gordon Mcloud and we are all Canadians. God save the Queen.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-30-2001 09:21 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, it would allow the guys in local 110 to not have to ever clean out the projectors as they would have to open some doors up. That takes thought and skill, plus that would take time away from lounging on the cot and cooking in the microwave plus they'd miss their favorite TV show that night too. Geez!
Mark 2 GTS

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