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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Wizard of Oz dye transfer.... (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Wizard of Oz dye transfer....
Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 06-22-2001 02:18 AM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just encountered my first ever dye transfer print. We are running kid shows here once a week. This week it is Wizard Of Oz. Was very surprised to find that the print is a dye transfer print. Reels 2,3,4,and 5 are all Dye transfered. But reel 1 and the last few minutes of reel 5 are not. These are the scenes in kansas. New it was Dye transfer because of the dark gray soundtracks for the analog and digital sources. This will probably be the only time I ever see one of these in this town. Would be nice to see one for a new movie though.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-22-2001 03:00 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Take a closer look at that first reel of Wizard of Oz.
It's not black and white like a lot of people think. It's a sepia toned print made off a b/w neg. It probably wasn't ever made in IB-Tech in the first place. (I'm guessing the originals were b/w prints that had been chemically altered to look like sepia.)
Here's the sneaky part. That last shot just before the c/o is when Dorothy is walking out the door of her tornado-wrecked house. It's a reverse angle shot of her walking towards a closed door.....

...<CHANGEOVER>...

.....Then she walks up to the door, opens it and steps out into the land of Oz, in glorious Technicolor. If you look closely you can see the change in the picture/color quality. Most people won't notice it.

Back in the day, I bet most people went to see the movie, thinking it was in Technicolor, saw the beginning reel and thought, "BAH!!! This isn't in color!" When that changeover hit I bet there was a huge, "GASP!!!", arising from the audience as they realized it WAS in color! I would have loved to see that!

GWTW rerelease was IB-Tech, although the results weren't quite as spectacular as we would have liked. The original matrices had shrunk... all at different rates, producing an effect where people sometimes looked like they had 3 mouths and 9 eyes.

A lot of the Bug's Life prints were IB, if I'm not mistaken, as well. Now, that one looked good, except for the end part when they put on the new blooper reel. They didn't make those ones IB. The difference in picture quality was noticable.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 06-22-2001 03:28 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Randy, you are thinking of Toy Story 2, not A Bug's Life.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-22-2001 03:34 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yep! My bad!

I was thinking about the blooper reels and didn't remember that both movies had them.

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Tao Yue
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 209
From: Princeton, NJ
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 06-22-2001 08:32 AM      Profile for Tao Yue   Author's Homepage   Email Tao Yue   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A question -- can you specifically request Technicolor dye-transfer prints for The Wizard of Oz? Darryl made it sound like he got one by accident, which leads me to think that the depots aren't keeping track of the dye-transfer prints from the Eastmancolor prints.

I've read that only about 50 dye-transfer prints were made, with the rest being Eastmancolor. Also, the Eastmancolor prints were reduced in size to compensate for the lack of 1.37:1 Academy full-frame aperture plates among multiplexes. (BTW, anybody know how they were reduced? A windowboxed picture in scope, like _Gone with the Wind_, or, even worse, a reduced picture fitted inside the widescreen area of a flat frame?) I'd like to run Oz for our classic film series this coming fall term (or next spring term), and there's no way I want to get stuck with an Eastmancolor prints if dye-transfers are available. Besides that, advertising the Technicolor might draw some interest to the classic series -- after all, Technicolor was founded by an MIT graduate.

--
Tao Yue
MIT '04: Course VI-2, Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
Projectionist, MIT Lecture Series Committee


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Robert Throop
Master Film Handler

Posts: 412
From: Vernon, NY USA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-22-2001 10:28 AM      Profile for Robert Throop   Email Robert Throop   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Most of the "Wizard of Oz" prints Had the 1.37 frame within a 1.85 frame for multiplex showing. There were a few full frame 1.37 IB prints. We showed one at the Stanley theatre in Utica, NY last year and it was SPECTACULAR.

------------------
Bob Throop

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 06-22-2001 11:28 AM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tao,

The fact that we got an IB print being an accident I don't know. All the kid shows we are running this year are from warner bros. They have been sending them by a special courior. The prints are coming from the warner bros. film archives. If you want an IB print I guess you could get in touch with the Warner bros. film archive and see about getting one. The print number we were sent is print #11. It is in pretty good shape except reel two did have a litlle section of splices in it. Can post the warner bros. archive information off of can later this week if you need it.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 06-22-2001 12:21 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
AFAIK, some of the "Toy Story 2" prints were dye transfer.

If you can't get a definite booking of a dye transfer print of "Wizard of Oz" from your normal Warner Bros. channels, try contacting the office of Richard P. May, Vice President of Film Preservation:

richard_may@warnerbros.com

Showing a dye transfer print at MIT, the alma mater of Herbert T. Kalmus (founder of Technicolor), may be of interest to them. Do remember that a dye transfer print of "The Wizard of Oz" should be shown with the "Academy" 1.37:1 aspect ratio (projectable image area 0.825 x 0.602 inches).
Technicolor Process
Technicolor Adventures in Cinemaland

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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Jeff Stricker
Master Film Handler

Posts: 481
From: Calumet, Mi USA
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 06-22-2001 01:54 PM      Profile for Jeff Stricker   Email Jeff Stricker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
First time I saw OZ was at Kid's Saturday matinee sometime in the 50's, I distinctly remember the opening scenes were straight B&W and not sepia. I was suprised to see that the recent prints (and TV screenings) have a sepia toned reel one. I wonder how it was released in 1939?

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Jeff Taylor
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 601
From: Chatham, NJ/East Hampton, NY
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 06-22-2001 01:56 PM      Profile for Jeff Taylor   Email Jeff Taylor   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Randy pointed out the slight variation in color quality just before the transition to full color in Oz...I'm sure Richard Haines could describe it better than I can, but that scene hasn't been shown as originally conceived since Technicolor gave up the high key silver image back in the late '40's. This was a black and white image which I believe was taken from the green camera negative to enhance the sharpness of the final product, and allowed the gradual fade from b/w to full color by monkeying around with the matrices. Now, of course, this is simulated by the fade from sepia on color stock, but it is noticeable and mildly jarring.

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Tao Yue
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 209
From: Princeton, NJ
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 06-22-2001 02:07 PM      Profile for Tao Yue   Author's Homepage   Email Tao Yue   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks, everyone, for your replies. They were extremely informative.

FYI, LSC is an entirely student-run organization, and usually goes through Swank (http://www.swank.com/), which handles the educational licensing for most new releases. That way, we get a discount and run movies vs. 50% of ticket sales.

I'll certainly make sure it's run with the proper 1.37:1 aspect ratio. It would be a great injustice to the film if it weren't. Martin Hart has just added a new section to his Widescreen Museum that includes scans of film frames. It's pretty distressing to see the 70mm rerelease of _Gone With the Wind_ compared with the full frame, and to find out just how much was chopped off.

--
Tao Yue
MIT '04: Course VI-2, Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
Projectionist, MIT Lecture Series Committee

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-22-2001 03:22 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, I never thought about the difference between the original releases in '39 and today's releases.
I, too, remeber seeing the beginning in B/W on TV when I was a kid but when I finally got a chance to see the film in a theatre I saw it was sepia and thought, "Aha!" Later on, I saw it on TV again and I looked at it more closely. The TV version was sepia also. I just thought that's the way it always was.

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Jeff Taylor
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 601
From: Chatham, NJ/East Hampton, NY
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 06-22-2001 03:37 PM      Profile for Jeff Taylor   Email Jeff Taylor   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
FWIW, I have a mid '80's LPP of OZ in 16mm. It's all LPP, but with the b/w segments in true black and white. When the transition to color occurs it jumps to sepia and then color. Looks relatively cheesy, but you get over it when you see that oversaturated storybook color!

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-22-2001 11:06 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As I understand things, the original 1939 prints of Oz had the sepia sections printed in some sort of oddball "dye monochrome" process that Technicolor once offered by no longer does. The recent IB prints were full-frame Academy and had the sepia sections printed on Eastman LPP stock.

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 06-23-2001 12:00 AM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Didn't they release a version of "Oz" in anamorphic? Watch out that you don't get shipped that release version, 'cause it's not 1.37.

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