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This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
Author Topic: Screens without masking
Michael Brown
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1522
From: Bradford, England
Registered: May 2001


 - posted 06-16-2001 10:33 AM      Profile for Michael Brown   Email Michael Brown   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Up untill a few years ago I used to attend most of the cinemas where I used to live and mostly they had side masking appart from the Warner Brothers cinema which features top and bottom masking. Then I attended the newly oppened Virgin Cinema in Sheffield to find that they had no curtains and NO MASKING. Now you walk into one of their auditoriums to be faced with a big 2.35:1 screen and then you end up watching a 1.85:1 movie which dos'nt fill the screen.

I just woundred what your oppinions were off this. I know some people like myself prefer Side masking to vertical masking but how do you guys feel about cinemas with no masking at all?

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Michael Brown
Bradford Student Cinema www.bradfordstudentcinema.co.uk


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John Anastasio
Master Film Handler

Posts: 325
From: Trenton, NJ, USA
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 06-16-2001 10:41 AM      Profile for John Anastasio   Author's Homepage   Email John Anastasio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sounds like they're trying to do things on the cheap...at the expense of the audience's enjoyment of their showings. As far as I'm concerned, anything which reminds the audience of the technical aspect of the film removes some of the magic of the experience. Not having the proper screen masking ranks up there in my book of annoyances with fuzzy focus, shutter ghost, crummy sound reproduction or scratches on the print. I don't even do showings in my home screening room without the right masking.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 06-16-2001 11:50 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
This is actually the one thing that never has bothered me all that much. It drives some people up the wall, but on a common height setup with a well cut aperture plate, I don't mind it.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 06-16-2001 12:27 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'll side with Antonio on this one.

Movies are supposed to be not only just entertainment but magic (As in magic lantern). The technical side of showing the movie should be absent. Having naked screen is just poor showmanship and should entitle the viewer to reduced admission. In fact, I can't stand theatres without main curtains. If you must show your slides, have a separate roll down slide screen that will at least make the slides look like they were put there with a purpose.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Alan Plester
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 209
From: great yarmouth england
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 06-16-2001 12:34 PM      Profile for Alan Plester   Email Alan Plester   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mike

Absolutely spot on regarding the screen masking & tabs in cinemas today. To my mind, there is nothing worse than watching different aspect trailers on a screen, it takes all the magic out of the show.
At the cinema where I worked, all trailers were opened up in the right aspect behind closed tabs, it`s part and parcel of the magic.
Sadly, I suppose, the bottom of the accountants sheet, dictates!.

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Michael Brown
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1522
From: Bradford, England
Registered: May 2001


 - posted 06-16-2001 01:23 PM      Profile for Michael Brown   Email Michael Brown   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What's most annoying is that one of their auditoriums is supposed to have the largest screen in the UK.

It is THX and has SRD/DTS/SDDS but everything I have seen was shown in SRD. (no DTS ect).

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Michael Brown
Bradford Student Cinema
www.bradfordstudentcinema.co.uk

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-16-2001 03:45 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
They may have one of the floating screens with wrap around edges and as such they are rather difficult to mask but impressive when the full screen is filled as the image appears to float in space

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Demetris Thoupis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1240
From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 06-16-2001 03:47 PM      Profile for Demetris Thoupis   Email Demetris Thoupis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello All,
Long time no speak! Anyway. My idea about masking is that it should ALWAYS be applied when we talk about side masking (left/right) but it can be avoided for top bottom. Side masking HAS to be applied to every cinema so that the screen feets exactly the eye view and not the eye view fitting the screan (you know what I mean). Anyway. I find it sad when I go into a cinema and find out that I am watching a flat movie on a super Cinemascope screen with no masking. It just doesn't feel right. If the screen fits full a flat film and lack up and bottom on Cinemascope films, then it looks just fine with no worries.
That's what I think
Demetris Thoupis

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Danny Hart
Film Handler

Posts: 50
From: St Andrews, Scotland
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 06-16-2001 10:30 PM      Profile for Danny Hart   Email Danny Hart   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
At one of my local multiplexes which I'd better not name & shame, they have (in ALL of their screens) a fixed screen ratio of 2:1, ie about halfway between 2.235:1 and 1.185:1. So for a scope film, they crop the edges, and for widescreen, they crop the top and bottom.

If I were a film director or producer, and I'd spent so much money on deciding a format, I would flatly refuse to allow my film to be shown in any format other than it was shot in.

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Rick Long
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 759
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 06-17-2001 02:49 AM      Profile for Rick Long   Email Rick Long   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree with Steve regarding the pleasure of being able to watch a film without thinking about the technical side of things (not that any of us in this forum can ever do that). But our audiences should still be given the opportunity to do so.

The fragile ability to "lose oneself" in the story, as it unfolds on the screen, can so easily be broken by so many apparently minor things, flicker in a corner of the screen,from an incorrectly alingned xenon bulb, incorrect sound playback levels, even a poorly filed aperture plate.

The masking, or floating screen, under correct projection conditions, provide to the viewer, an "edge of the universe". Within those four edges, occurs the story. The high contrast between the masking and the picture area help the viewer to "filter out" all that is umimportant to his/her enjoyment. Nothing seen in the periphial vision, outside these limits is to be considered.

In even our "budget" theatres, we have always provided a masking ability (even manually operated by lowering a rope for top masking, or moveable boards for side masking).


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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 06-17-2001 06:24 AM      Profile for Pete Naples   Email Pete Naples   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well there is only one multiplex in Edinburgh that has the set up, so I know which one you're talking about Danny, I agree with you that things ought to be done properly, masking or no masking. We find during the Edinburgh Film Festival there are certain directors that will not allow their films to be screened at certain cinemas, becasue they don't like the sound or one that crops up often (pardon the pun) they don't like the ratio set up.

I personally don't like the no masking approach, although the type of floating screen that Gordon mentioned does look quite nice if it's done well

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Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 06-17-2001 09:39 AM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I ran on a floating screen in a shoebox auditorium and quickly grew to hate the whole setup in that auditorium, from the periscope booth with the squeeky Eprad platter, to the projector beam just skimming the audience's head while they sat on recycled seats, to the floating screen. The choice for a floating screen is either to design it to show everything 2/1 (hi Evans) or live with the edges of the plate showing when screening one type of film.

It might have been nice if scope could have been shown raised on the screen to better the sight lines, but as I remember the flat was optimized and the scope pictures were allowed to be a flag stripe across the center, with any single stray dust particle on the plate waving to the audience.

The lenses weren't good, and the periscope setup and the slight curve on the short focal length did nothing to improve matters. The style at the time was to float the screen in front of a blue wall, which meant any error in the plate showed on the wall and was distracting to some of the audience.

A floating screen in front of a black wall, used only for a single format, could be nice. I admit my experience is based on the abomination I just described.


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Evans A Criswell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1579
From: Huntsville, AL, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 06-17-2001 01:46 PM      Profile for Evans A Criswell   Author's Homepage   Email Evans A Criswell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
To Danny Hart:

Don't hesitate to "name and shame" any theatre that shows everything on fixed-sized screens. I name and shame such theatres quite often. In fact, I'll do it again:

In Huntsville, Alabama:
Regal Hollywood 18: Auditoriums 3,4,5,6,7,8,11,12,13,14,15,16
Regal Madison Square 12: Auditoriums 3,4,5,6,9,10,11,12

Unless Regal has done something with these in the past few months, all of the auditoriums mentioned above have 1.85:1 screens with no masking, and scope movies are shown with the sides chopped off.

Does anyone know appropriate people to write at some of the major studios about this problem? Regal Madison Square 12, on Friday night, was showing two prints of "The Mummy II" in the small auditoriums, for example. I think these theatres should be forbidden to show scope prints in the above auditoriums until adjustable masking is in place. They'd have to go with top masking, which isn't ideal, but is far better than nothing.

Regal recently spent a large amount of money putting stadium seating in these locations and neglected to spend approximately $2000 per screen (a total of $40000, a drop in the bucket compared to the recent renovation costs) to fix this mess that Cobb left behind for them.

Can anyone provide specific names and addresses at, say, Fox, Universal, etc. to whom I could write about this problem? If just one of the major studios would act against this problem, it might provide the nudge necessary to get Regal to fix this problem.

Roger Frazee, if you still participate here, did anything ever happen as far as getting the adjustable masking approved for these locations? I have not been doing "sneak peeks" of these auditoriums lately since Hollywood 18 was recently robbed twice, and looking into auditoriums for which I don't have a ticket isn't something I want to be doing with probable increased security at these locations. However, people are still telling me about chopped opening titles and end credits, as well as obvious chopping of the image sides.

Don't get me wrong. I am in no way "Anti-Regal". I will be the first to praise Regal when I see that this problem has been corrected. I would love to announce that this problem has been corrected, take away the 7.5 point facility deduction for these locations in my ratings, and remove the pages describing the problem from my site. Regal should have fixed this problem when they took over these theatres in August of 1997.

As for the other problem mentioned of showing flat movies on scope screens without pulling the masking in properly, I typically count off 4 points for that when I rate presentations (see web site in my signature), since the left and right edges generally look poor, and then there is the showmanship issue.

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Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Info Site


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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 06-17-2001 02:32 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Roger Frazee from Regal is on these forums, and I am sure other Regal execs are lurkers. Hopefully, if bugged enough, they might be able to do something about it one way or another.

Trouble is, many of their sreens (and other theater chain as well) were masked 2:1, and the screen is not big enough to run a full 2.35 without making a postage stamp out of the picture.

Nor is there enough room to hang a bigger screen. Poor auditorium design seems to kill them every time when it comes to showmanship, as well as people who are in the booth that don't have the slightest idea on how to put on a quality performance.

I wait for the movie that catches my eye to come out on video or DVD. It jacks my jaws when I see a crappy performance with crappy sound in a crappy auditorium design. There are tens of thousands of people who feel the same as I do about that issue.


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Rory Burke
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 181
From: Burbank, CA, USA
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 06-17-2001 03:26 PM      Profile for Rory Burke   Email Rory Burke   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I wanted to echo what steve Guttag said up there some where!!!

The difference between watching movies at home in a DD 5:1 evironment on a 60 inch mitsubishi TV vs the cinema experience is the set up. The picture and sound NEED to be prefect. What happend to having fantasies being fulfilled at the movies? Someone whom I worked for before would told me about the concept of masking. He pointed out the "picture box" look. 12 inches of black around the screen and you pull the audience attention into this "picture box" ......with that in mind, exit lights behind screens, DTS time code, no masking, venietting, incorrect aspect ratio, badly cut aperture plates etc etc, seems to be with what we have to deal with alot.
The Industry money making incentive + customer satisfaction + <caring coefficient>= good movie experience.
It seems this important coeficient is now = to zero!!!

Rory!

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