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Topic: frame lines

Michael Brown
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1522
From: Bradford, England
Registered: May 2001

posted 06-16-2001 10:13 AM

okey, i just want your opinions on this. If a cinema regurarly has a horizontal black bar which appears on some or all of the adverts/trailers and you can often see boom microphones appear at the top of the screen, are they doing something wrong?

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Michael Brown
Bradford Student Cinema
www.bradfordstudentcinema.co.uk

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John Anastasio
Master Film Handler

Posts: 325
From: Trenton, NJ, USA
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 06-16-2001 10:52 AM

Well, they're not doing something right. Is this the same theater you mentioned in your screen masking post? Sounds like a real mess of a place. They're showing their flat prints with the 2:35 aperture plate installed, so the 1:87 print isn't being masked. Some flat prints come with the frame already masked on the print, which would explain the black horizontal areas above and below the picture on the screen. It's also why the microphone is showing. All that should be blocked by the proper aperture plate in the projector.It also means they're using the wrong focal length lens for 1:87. It's the effect you get if you simply unscrew the anamorphic adaptor from a cinemascope lens and show a flat print with it....you see the entire frame, microphones, masking and all. It's a wonder they're not giving you a view of the soundtrack as well! I hope you're not buying any of their popcorn.

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Michael Brown
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1522
From: Bradford, England
Registered: May 2001

posted 06-16-2001 11:16 AM

The problem i think is only at the top of the image ie no black bar at bottom of the image (sorry if this was unclear in previous post).

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 06-16-2001 11:48 AM

I'm wondering if this is nothing more than someone who doesn't know how to frame.

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John Anastasio
Master Film Handler

Posts: 325
From: Trenton, NJ, USA
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 06-16-2001 12:46 PM

Brad's right. It's the simpler answer and would explain why the black bar only appears at the top. Yep...framing, I'll vote for framing.

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Michael Brown
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1522
From: Bradford, England
Registered: May 2001

posted 06-16-2001 01:16 PM

yep, this ia a real shame as it seems to happen every time I go there.

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Michael Brown
Bradford Student Cinema
www.bradfordstudentcinema.co.uk

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 06-16-2001 03:48 PM

Also remember the European flat standard is 1.66:1 not 1.85:1 and it is possible that the screen is set up for the european standard to ensure subtitles don't get axed. As such some flat films that didn't get the hard cropped 1.85 frame lines or just plain sloppy camerwork may have some nasty stuff show up

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Ben Wales
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 602
From: Southampton. England
Registered: Jul 99

posted 06-16-2001 05:03 PM

I expect this cinema had plates & screen masking set for 1:66.1 to cater for the Europeon films that were mainly in 1:66.1 format.

However it is mainly 1:85.1 in the UK these days, very few films I have seen recently are 1:66.1, except for the odd TV filmed animated production.

I am not sure what projection they have at this cinema and who had set it up, as it sounds they need a proper service!.

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Rick Long
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 759
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 06-17-2001 03:24 AM

I find it interesting that Michael mentioned that the horizontal bar is seen only on the "adverts and trailers". I assume this is not being seen during the feature. Is it possible that, somehow, the advets/trailer package is constantly being spliced in, but out of frame by one sprocket hole?

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Jesse Skeen
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1517
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 06-17-2001 09:01 AM

The trailers are probably hard-matted (1.85) but the movie isn't.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 06-20-2001 11:01 AM

Michael: When you see an obvious framing error, let them know so it can be corrected immediately. Seeing the black frameline on "hard matted" adverts/trailers, and boom mikes in the unmatted feature indicates the image was simply framed too low.

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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Andy Muirhead
Master Film Handler

Posts: 323
From: Galashiels, Scotland
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 06-20-2001 07:08 PM

Michael, Jesse is probably 100% correct in that the ads are hard matted. Some ads are more noticable than others. Some flat features are also hard matted but most are not and this is why you can see the boom mikes. John is absolutely correct in saying that you should point this out.

There is NO WAY anyone should have to tolerate watching a film projected this way. If any of my projectionists even show ads&trailers with the hint of black at top or bottom i get it sorted (and i'm usually a very laid back guy!)

It could be they don't even have a clue their doing anything wrong, so maybe you could educate them!

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