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Topic: Problems with Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon

Rachel Carter
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 248
From: Gloucester, Massachusetts, USA
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 06-14-2001 07:02 PM

Has anyone else had any problems with their print of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon? I'm just curious because ours sheds so fast you almost get a handful a show. The problem is following the print because we have had it in 2 different auditoriums and it did it in both. I have never seen a print shed so bad. No other films in either auditoriums have done this. Our tech came out to do maintenance on our projectors and he was guessing it was a combination of cheap film stock and a roller in the projector that wasn't spinning. I fixed the roller but the print is still doing it.

The ring also rises off the platter; I was told this could be due to someone at a previous theater applying too much film cleaner. This problem is also following the print. Is this correct?

Luckily we are getting rid of this print tonight.

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Jonathan Haglund
Film Handler

Posts: 81
From: Irvine, CA, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 06-14-2001 07:23 PM

I don't want to bother with why you have this "masterpiece."

You could run a print like that through some film guard a few times, it could be the same residue redeposited on the film. Just give the projector a good cleaning after each run.

I've not had any problems using too much film cleaner, so I don't know what the ring issue is.

-Jonathan

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Rachel Carter
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 248
From: Gloucester, Massachusetts, USA
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 06-14-2001 08:26 PM

Heh, why do we have this masterpiece? Because we are a dollar house theater. I care very much about the way we present our films so this is just driving me crazy!

I have to clean the projector after each showing (I really have no choice its so bad), I usually do a wipe down anyway after each showing and clean it good at close.

I'm going to shy away from adding more film cleaner for now just for the simple fact that I was told this might be why the ring is rising.

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 06-14-2001 08:45 PM

Hi Rachel

Does the print itself _look_ as though it has had cleaner applied?

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Rachel Carter
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 248
From: Gloucester, Massachusetts, USA
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 06-14-2001 09:02 PM

Actually, as far as I can tell....no. We have had this print for a couple of weeks and I have not applied any film cleaner. The print did not do this right off, it started shedding about 3 days ago and the ring started rising 2 weeks after we got the print. I've run all the showings tonight and now its leaving so I don't really have to worry about it anymore, I'm just curious as to why it was doing this.

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999

posted 06-14-2001 09:15 PM

I ran "CTHD" when it first came out. Didn't have any problems. "CTHD" was not printed on cheap stock. Did it shed when you first got it? If so, I would suspect that the previous theater did something wrong, like scraped it on the edge, which can be hard to notice. If it started all of a sudden while your theater had it....(!) I've never seen film cleaner do that... what make of film cleaner are you using?

Several things can force the takeup ring to "cone" upwards. Humidity might do it. Or too much tension around the platter rollers (as if someone was holding the film at the pay out head) that causes the film to be stretched along one side. If this happens, just thread the film onto the take up platter deck the other way (soundtrack down.)

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Rachel Carter
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 248
From: Gloucester, Massachusetts, USA
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 06-14-2001 10:20 PM

As I stated above, I have not used any film cleaner on this print. I don't believe the problem is because the platters are wrapping too tight, this was the first thing I thought of. This is the only movie that does it and it has done it in two different autotoriums where no other print has. The second thing I thought of was humitity, which is possible. I just thought it was odd being the only print that was doing anything ~funny~.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 06-15-2001 02:20 AM

First I am curious as to what make of platters you are using. It definitely does sound like excessive takeup tension, but if it is only doing it on this ONE print...

...that leads me to believe that a pad roller in the projector at one point during the run of CTHD was too tight and ever so slightly damaged the sprockets of that particular film (not enough to even see just looking at it). I've seen it several times before on a projector that intermittently causes this problem (depending on film stock) and aligning the pad rollers always makes the problem go away for future films ran in that projector. Once the print is damaged though, there is no fix that I am aware of other than to perhaps do the soundtrack down trick. Try and lay two pieces of film on a sprocket and close the pad roller. Can you still easily spin the pad roller? If not, then you may have just found your problem.

The only other thing I can think of that would cause that would be from a leaky projector. If that print has a LOT of oil on it, that can be causing the problem...although I've only seen that happen on one particular model of platters and that is the dreaded CFS "Super" platters (see my review). Due to this platter's dished design, once a print is played on this platter and oil gets on it, the print will continue for pretty much all eternity to try and wind "upward" to mimick that platter's deck. What a damned stupid design that p.o.s. platter has.

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Christopher Duvall
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 500
From: Denver, CO
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 06-15-2001 06:48 AM

I have seen similar antics in prints as well. From what I know and have seen on the prints that were coning and shedding, the print was damaged during one run due to a misthread such as a side being pinched in the gate or not lined up properly in the gate. As Brad pointed out, misadjusted tension in runner bands in the gate or too much tension on the pads will damage the film as well.

Our fixes were usually to go soundtrack down and clean the print. Unfortunately, this isn't a permanent fix but it will help. The last time I had this problem, the whole gate assembly got wacked by a brain wrap from static. The gate on the Simplex got misaligned ever so slightly where we did not quite notice it until it was too late. Bug's Life got trashed. It was a dark day that day in my booth.

------------------
Chris Duvall
General Manager
Regal Cinemas Colonnade14
Las Vegas, NV

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 06-15-2001 10:33 AM

We had no problems with our print of tiger.
Some prints were photoguarded though and that can cause flaking in certain machines as well as a tendancy to crown on platters if the tension is not smack on

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Bill Carter
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 162
From: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 06-15-2001 11:12 AM

I ran two different prints of CTHD in two different theaters. One was Photoguarded, one was not. The one that was seemed to shed quite a bit.

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 06-15-2001 05:55 PM

if the print had been slightly damaged in the sprocket hole area causing a crease to form will cause the film to push up on the center ring. to eliminate this run the soundtrack down on the platter or the opposite of the way u are running it on now. If it still does it then it could be a condition like Gordon described.

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