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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Covering films overnight? (Page 1)

 
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
Author Topic: Covering films overnight?
Jesse Skeen
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1517
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Aug 2000


 - posted 05-21-2001 08:13 AM      Profile for Jesse Skeen   Email Jesse Skeen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What do the rest of you think about those cloth platter covers? Should they ALWAYS be put on the films before closing, or are they just a waste of time? I'm not going to post my opinion since I don't want to influence anyone else's.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-21-2001 08:44 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In my home theatre the air conditioning ducts would occasionally belch dust bunnies and other random filth when they fired up in the morning after being off all night. The diffusers were mounted directly above the projectors. (A real genius idea if I do say so myself!)

If the prints weren't covered at night they they would be filthy the next day when you came in.

So how much time does it take to cover the print and uncover it in the morning? Maybe a minute total? Is a minute's time THAT valuable to you that you can't cover the prints at night?

I say do it. Better safe than sorry.

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Ian Price
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1714
From: Denver, CO
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-21-2001 08:53 AM      Profile for Ian Price   Email Ian Price   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I covered my prints at the Esquire
I covered my prints at the Mayan
I covered my prints at Thornton
I covered my prints at the Greenwood

And I sure as hell cover my prints at the Rialto!

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 05-21-2001 09:13 AM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
I have always covered prints or put 'em in the cabinets. Everyone knows that the roof only leaks above something important. Also have the habit of not leaving prints on the top platter overnight unless absolutely necessary.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-21-2001 09:58 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The best covers I ran across were made of the same vynl material as covers for outdoor barbaques. They were treated with a staticside. The company also had a bag to fit over reels left on the upper reel arm.
I think cinex in canada still sells them.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 05-21-2001 10:43 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree. Covering prints between shows is a good idea. Certainly cover them if there are activities (e.g., masonry demolition, construction, drywall work, painting) that could put dust into the air. Certainly cover them if the air conditioning system is so dirty that it spews out a flurry of dust when the fan turns on. Certainly cover them if there is any possibility of water dripping on the film.

But, keep the covers clean! Too often, the covers are thrown on the dirty floor, or never cleaned. It does more harm than good to put a cover full of dust and debris onto the print.

In addition to print covers, consider other things that will keep the projection room dust-free. Use HEPA filters (the pleated paper kind) over the heating/air conditioning ducts to trap any dirt that may be airborne. Use a central vacuum system or damp mopping to keep floors and work surfaces clean. (A normal vacuum cleaner or shop vac often doesn't filter out the fine dust particles, and spews them back into the air). Limit traffic through the projection room, and change from dirty outerwear (e.g, muddy boots, raingear) BEFORE entering the projection room.

Here's a quick test of cleanliness: clean a dark smooth surface by wiping it clean with a damp cloth. If enough dust settles and accumulates in a week to clearly write your name in the dust, you need to take measures to reduce the ambient level of dirt. Or do the "white glove" test of wiping your finger on surfaces of the platter and rewind bench to see if there is any dust that the film may contact.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 05-21-2001 03:35 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
This is something humorous to me. Let's say a given print runs 5 shows a day and the operators only use the top 2 platters (come on guys, admit it). The film on it's first day starts on the top platter, so that at the end of the day it ends up on the middle deck. The print is covered and the breakers are turned off as the projectionist goes home. The next morning, the projectionist powers up, removes the cover and runs the day's shows. What's wrong with this picture? The top platter, which is the one that will catch the most airborne dust overnight was not cleaned, so that print that was covered all night long is now being ran onto a dusty deck. (How many will fess up to this one?) Also, what was done with the platter cover? Most booths I see either wad it up and toss it on the floor (dirty), toss it on top of the lamphouse (dirty and can cover up important ventilation) or hang it on a hook on the wall. The best of these 3 senarios is to use the hook, but if the bottom side is not kept against the wall, it will just get dirty throughout the day. While I am speaking of this, how many people actually pay attention to the top vs. the bottom of the cover? On some nights is the top (aka: dirty) side of the cover being placed against the film? I see this all the time.

Ideally, the film cover should be neatly folded (bottom side folded inward) and placed in a dust free environment (like a drawer) for daily storage. Even just placing the folded cover on the bottom platter deck is better than setting it on a shelf or the electrical wireway, for at least there is some amount of protection from dust via the middle platter.

The other senario is on the next day when the film ends up on the top platter at the end of the day. Does the roof leak? Cloth platter covers can virtually glue themselves to a print if water gets on them! I much prefer a plastic cover. Even a plain thick drop cloth cut into a square makes for a better platter cover than the cloth ones if you have a roof leak (and it's a lot easier to fold as well! )

Hmmmm, where's my buddy Steve to speak of how he covers his prints?


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Paul Konen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 981
From: Frisco, TX. (North of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-21-2001 04:30 PM      Profile for Paul Konen   Email Paul Konen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I cover my prints because, like I, they like to stay warm and cozy while they are sleeping.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-21-2001 04:42 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"Hmmmm, where's my buddy Steve to speak of how he covers his prints? "
Like all good projectionists I am sure he puts the reels in the neumade storage cabenet

I have found that drop sheets and garbage bags add to the static on the print

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Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 05-21-2001 06:06 PM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bravo for pointing out the fallacies, Brad.

Unless a booth is under construction or otherwise unusually dusty, covering the print is something that can cause more problems than it is worth. Even in a worst case scenario, a film can always be wiped off with a lightly dampened rag.

Some circuits have a policy of leaving projectors threaded for at least some of the features, usually to cut "prep" time, but also in case of the not so rare circumstances at the beginning of the day (technicolor <cough> ) that require attention to other matters. (I'll leave that for others to debate, I've seen good points for both points of view on pre-threading in an imperfect world.)

The real question is "Is the booth dusty and dirty enough to require covers?" If it is, it needs new AC filters, better seals, and perhaps a good vacuuming and mopping, along with a thorough cleaning of dusty surfaces. The booth will never be a cleanroom environment, but one smoking projectionist can deposit more crud on a print than leaving it uncovered for days.

Flame away.



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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 05-21-2001 06:09 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
No flame here. I know several booths that do not cover their prints in any fashion and have the best presentations in town. I agree it really is a situation of if your booth requires the use of a cover, you've got bigger problems. That being said, I am still for covering prints *if* done properly like I detailed above.

In regards to movies being threaded overnight, I could rant for about 10 pages about what bad practice that is. I will spare everyone by just saying do not do that.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-21-2001 07:38 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Over the years I have been noted for turning around and leaving on a service call if I come in and find a machine to be serviced left threaded overnight. It is a bad practice (imperfect world or not)
One does not get into their car and turn on the engine and gun it out the driveway imediately they let it warm up first.
Any mechanical device requires that. Oil filled machines to circulate lubricant and on belts to remove the set. Most cases of a stripped gear or snapped belt have occured on the startup of the first show in a theatre that leaves everything threaded. Frankly I don't have time to waste serviceing that form of damage when we are busy enough doing work assureing quality presentations at locations where that is the primary importance.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 05-21-2001 07:51 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jerry said: "Even in a worst case scenario, a film can always be wiped off with a lightly dampened rag."


Please, NO!!!

Even a slight amount of water can soften the gelatin of the film emulsion, causing it to either stick in the gate, or stick the layers of the film together causing severe "cling". Better to use a vacuum with a soft brush to pick up the dust. Then, use a clean, lint-free cloth very slightly dampened with FilmGuard or a solvent-based film cleaner.

I do agree with NOT threading/lacing up the night before. As Gordon said, the unthreaded/unlaced projectors should be allowed to run a few minutes to "loosen up". And all that exposed thread-up leader will pick up dirt sitting there overnight.


------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-21-2001 08:54 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I know about not leaving film threaded overnight in platter booths. This just makes intuitive sense as being a Bad Thing (tm) for getting the film dirty.

What's the feeling about doing this in reel-to-reel booths, though? The ones where I've worked have had a custom of leaving the first reel (usually trailers) to be shown threaded up the night before. Is this really such a bad thing? It seems like it would not be a major problem, especially with enclosed reel magazines (so that the entire film path is enclosed and thus protected from dust). Thoughts?

Also, what about using compressed air (either from a can or from an air compressor) to clean the film path? I've heard differing opinions on the wisdom of this: one says that it's quick and easy and the other says that it does nothing more than get dust in the air and onto the film.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-21-2001 09:00 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Even leaving reel to reel booths threaded still does not allow the machine to be warmed up a few minuets before being put to work allowing belt set and lubrication.
Also if it is a simplex the odds are that the sound pinch roller will be left closed and develop a flat spot.

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