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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Marking Reel Splices (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Marking Reel Splices
Bill Enos
Film God

Posts: 2081
From: Richmond, Virginia, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 05-12-2001 12:04 AM      Profile for Bill Enos   Email Bill Enos   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What would be considered a satisfactory means of marking reel splices? Colored tape is out as it is seen on screen and affects all the sound tracks. Zebra tape, likewise. Edge tape affects SDDS. Shoe polish boogers up SDDS and is claimed to flake. I've used all the methods above at one time or other, and they all make breakdown more convenient, is there something else?

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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 05-12-2001 12:15 AM      Profile for Aaron Sisemore   Email Aaron Sisemore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This topic has been done to death but here goes.

If you MUST use a colored splice tape use Splicemark tape as it doesn't affect the reading of digital soundtracks. (I have yet to have a digital track drop out at a Splicemark splice...)

Aaron

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 05-12-2001 12:29 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark the film reels and feel for the splice during breakdown. There is no reason to use any form of marking at all. Look at the Building 101 tips to see how to mark the physical reels.

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Jason Black
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1723
From: Myrtle Beach, SC, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 05-12-2001 01:30 AM      Profile for Jason Black   Author's Homepage   Email Jason Black   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A very simple way to mark splices for breakdown is to use a piece of Permacell (?) tape at just prior to the splice. This tape is like maskingtape, only non residous, so no damage to the film. It is very plain to see and you know where the splice is coming up.

Anyone who is breaking down prints, IMO, should be able to SEE the splices (or reel change) by the differnet texture/contour of the film itself. Look at a film on the platter and tell me you can't see the reels by the contour/color variations in each individual reel....

My guys build in using only clear tape anyway.

Aaron, where could I go about SEEING a picture of the Splicemark tape you mentioned?

------------------
The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese!

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-12-2001 09:49 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I find the eprad cue marker prevents a paint marker from dripping into the sdds area. I often use a ultraviolet marker or a yellow one. It doesn't flake or drip and I have never had a problem with a SDDS dropout

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 05-12-2001 02:58 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Although I am not the one who has to break down or build up a film on a platter, a skilled projectionist should be able to get by with using clear tape only.

I'm not around film prints all day, but I can easily look at a film on a platter and tell where each reel begins and ends. Kinda reminds me of the rings on a round tree stump.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-13-2001 12:16 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have been telling my people to use regular zebra tape, per company policy but to make their splices like this:


(Note: Simulated image.)

Only one of my theatres has SDDS. The guys who run that booth are some of my better "guys". They know not to block the tracks and they adjust the tape accordingly. (So only one yellow band shows between the inboard sprocket holes.) For the other theatres this is a moot issue.

What you get by doing this is all the "benefits" of zebra tape without any of the yellow showing on the screen or causing Rice Crispies in your soundtrack (Snap-Crackle-POP! )
Yes, it's easier to find your splices when you break down but the MAIN reason I use this method to mark my "reel-change splices" is to that it's easier to tell them from "repair splices".


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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 05-13-2001 02:19 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Company policy? What a stupid policy that is! If the projectionists at a theater are intelligent enough to not need yellow tape, the corporate guys should be pleased and not punish them to use the inferior quality of that tape. Yellow tape works best in a trash can.

Also, just how often does your theaters have damages necessitating the use of "repair splices"? If it is more than about once a year, you have bigger problems to worry about than the kind of tape being used.

Sorry for the rant Randy, but those two comments just strike me as bas-ack-wards. Great illustration though.

Also, if the SDDS reader is aligned properly, you can use solid opaque tape and not have a dropout. If that splice above would drop the SDDS audio, your reader is not aligned properly.


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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-13-2001 11:42 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry, most of us don't have the $$ that you do and can't buy a Metric splicer. When we come across lab splices, busted sprocket holes and other random junk like that we have to use our lowly tape splicers to repair it.

I couldn't give a rat's ass about SDDS, personally. I only have one of them to work on. Basically I hook up the computer to it, take the readings and write them in my reports. When the thing stops working I'll go put new LEDs in it. If I have problems with it that require more than that I'll do my homework. Until then I could care less if the damn thing fell off the face of the earth...

Consequently if there are splices covering the SDDS... who cares.

I started using the clear part of the zebra tape when we started getting the Neumade tape that didn't have the dashed cross bar. Up until that time I was just carefully placing the tape so that the soundtrack was in the clear space between the dashes. If you look closely at the Neumade tape without the dashes, the edges of the tape are "dithered" (or whatever) I guess the idea is that it will make less noise going through. Still, it sounds like a bowl of Rice Krispies to me.

Finally after a couple of times I got peeved off and started using clear tape and using a SharpieŽ marker to put a dot on the tape so I could tell the differences between rell-changes and repairs. Well, there were a couple of people who couldn't find the splices without the zebra tape and they whined to management. I went grumbling off to the work bench to make up the next movie and I just thought of that out of the blue. I've been using it that way ever since. The whiners are satisfied and I can do a good job of putting the films together.

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Patrick de Groot
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 161
From: Sprang-Capelle, Netherlands
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 05-13-2001 01:07 PM      Profile for Patrick de Groot   Email Patrick de Groot   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I just use some transparent tape (usualy one side of the film) and puts a little piece of some white address stickers which "glues" on the opposite side of the analogue track (preventing blocking of the SRD track). SDDS... well they say it's has some backup on one side for the other part.
And in my opinion if a digital system can't handle this kind of "trouble" it is a BAD system... But then again, I don't have any experience with digital systems...
We don't use platters, we're using two
filmspools for long and one spool for shorter movies (ie disney).


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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 05-13-2001 06:27 PM      Profile for Aaron Sisemore   Email Aaron Sisemore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
>>Aaron, where could I go about SEEING a picture of the Splicemark tape you mentioned?<<
http://www.cinprod.com/images/products/tape.jpg

It's the red (actually magenta) colored tape.

If you'd like I can send you a roll to try out...

Aaron

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 05-13-2001 06:31 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Varying opinions and procedures on reel splices are another reason why DTS is a better system. Certainly a SDDS reader or Dolby Digital reader should not drop out at the reel splice if properly aligned. However, I've seen well maintained systems do it at the splice.

The maximum number of frames SR*D and SDDS can miss before defaulting to analog is only 4 frames. With DTS, the max is 48 frames. Depending on the data that is obscured by a solid reel splice, you may or may not get a dropout. It just depends on what the SR*D or SDDS system was trying to do at the time.

If you have a "repair splice" on a print, much of the time the frames missing will usually cause a short fallout to analog on most any SR*D or SDDS system. I've seen DTS get through a missing chunk of film removed from a wraparound mishap without missing a beat.

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Aldo Baez
Master Film Handler

Posts: 266
From: USA
Registered: Mar 2001


 - posted 05-13-2001 06:45 PM      Profile for Aldo Baez     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The way I do it is I use the solid yellow tape, but when a reel changes I cut half of the very last frame off (two sprockets worth), then cut half of the very first frame of the reel, and splice the solid yellow tape onto that. That way when it goes through its covering one complete frame, not two, and its barely noticeable. Its like part of the scene change took 1/24 of a second longer.
I don't have problems with the reader dropping out or anything like that, and when we do repair splices we always use the clear tape. And its *much* easier to ear down, just wait for the bright yellow part of the print. And its very easy to see the reels when the film is on the platter as you can see the yellow pretty well.

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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 05-13-2001 08:31 PM      Profile for Aaron Sisemore   Email Aaron Sisemore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
>>If you have a "repair splice" on a print, much of the time the frames missing will usually cause a short fallout to analog on most any SR*D or SDDS system.<<

In almost all of these cases it is because after repairing the print, there is a slight bit of damaged soundtrack, whether its from trying to save as much of the crinkled,mangled film as possible, or from the track being scratched or stretched in the process of brainwrapping which causes misreads and subsequent dropouts. DTS is rarely if at all affected by this type of damage.

Aaron

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-13-2001 09:59 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
For me, finding the splices isn't much problem at all. When I'm getting to the place where the splice ought to be I just gently run my finger along the top "corner" of the print as it spins. I can feel the splice going by with each rotation. As I get closer to the place where the splice should be I am progressively slowing down the make up table. On the first revolution when I don't feel the splice going by anymore I stop. By the time the inertia wears off and the thing finally comes to a halt I usually find the splice is within a foot or two of the reel. Unless I am suffering from an attention lapse, I rarely miss by more than a couple-three feet.

Even when your splicer is working almost perfectly you can still feel the tape going by. It's just harder and you need to pay attention more closely. What I use the zebra tape for is so that when I get to a splice I can instantly tell if it's at the end of a reel or if it's there for another reason. When I don't see that little flash of yellow I know that I don't have to stop unless I want to check to make sure the splice is still good before I put the reel back in the can.

Essentially I can usually find A splice with my eyes shut. I use the zebra tape to find THE splice.

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