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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » How does the film get damaged (Page 1)

 
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
Author Topic: How does the film get damaged
Jamie Hanslip
Film Handler

Posts: 13
From: Southampton, England
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 04-25-2001 08:15 PM      Profile for Jamie Hanslip   Email Jamie Hanslip   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
hello,

Im trying to find out for a report that i am writing, why film gets damage due to
marking the end of reels.

From reading this forum it is seen that every one has a high level of presentation
skills. It seems that no one would damage a film by leaving tipex all over it, and mark
the joins in way that causes poor presentation.

Unfortunately lots of films arrive at are cinema in poor condition covered in, tipex,
chinagraph and sticky labels covering all four sound tracks.

What i want to know is how do these prints get like this. Is due to inexperienced
projectionists, projectionists that were not properly trained, or projectionist that just don't
care, etc.?

Please can i have your views, and any possible links to literature regarding this
subject.

Many Thanks Jamie

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 04-25-2001 08:31 PM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Over the many years that I have been doing this job I have seen many things. Masking tape holding the heads and tails together, No heads and tails and even saw a print where someone used a stapler to staple the heads and tails back on. I have seen the use of shoe polish to mark the end and begining of reels. (Shoe polish is for shoes not film). Some of it is inexperience. Some of it is experience but trying to get things done faster. Some of it is I don't care additudes.

A properly returned reel should be heads up, with all heads and tails spliced back on with splicing tape, and all cues removed. No shoe polish or any markings on the picture area should ever be used or done.

When I started working at the theater that I am at right now. The first thing I did was throw the shoe polish away. John Pytlak can probably provide you with the literature that you may need.

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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 04-25-2001 09:09 PM      Profile for Aaron Sisemore   Email Aaron Sisemore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
>>What i want to know is how do these prints get like this. Is due to inexperienced projectionists, projectionists that were not properly trained, or projectionist that just don't care, etc.?<<

Most unfortunately, ALL THREE REASONS are true in many many cases.

Aaron


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James R. Hammonds, Jr
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 931
From: Houston, TX, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 04-25-2001 10:00 PM      Profile for James R. Hammonds, Jr   Email James R. Hammonds, Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
<<Masking tape holding the heads and tails together>>

Why is it not good to attach the heads and tails with masking tape?
The only reason I could think of is that the masking tape might leave some residue on the film.
Is there another reason, or is it just something that bothers people.
Personally, if putting the head on with masking tape is harmless to the film, then i would actually prefer that it were taped on if I was biulding it up next.

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 04-25-2001 10:10 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This is like asking; why are there wars? There's no single answer. But, I think, the way a theater runs almost always is a reflection on the owner (whether a single person or corperate group.)

But, more specific to your question, people have done all kinds of things to mark the reel ends. I’ve seen masking tape, transparent tape, duct tape. I’ve seen all of those used to either just get the head/tails to stay together; I’ve also seen them used to actually splice the film in a splicer. (I had staples, too!) China markers, felt-tipped pens, small round stickers, a heavy scratch across the frame, yellow colored tape, a hole punched, edge-painting (w/ shoe polish or other pen-like applicators) have all been used to mark the splice.

I think the reason you see this kind of poor practice is mostly because a lazy operator wants to make it super-easy not to miss the splice when breaking down the print.

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Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 04-25-2001 11:34 PM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A lot of it is hold over from the old days, when many booths were dimly lit holes, and the only soundtrack to worry about was the optical one.

As for shoe polish, believe it or not, when Terri Smith was first giving the Kodak presentations to theatres, it was an accepted practice. There was one type of polish or dye that didn't flake off as badly as others, and a short strip of that on the edge was thought preferrable to the hash marks and other methods that were also used at the time.

I used a tiny self adhesive tab folded-over the sprocket area, and sometimes a sound bloop until I realized that with tape splices and on platters it wasn't needed. The edges of the film have enough difference from reel to reel that they can be told apart on platters where one side of the film is exposed (unintentional pun).

With 5K and 6K floating hub reels it was almost impossible to see the film clearly enough to hit the mark every time, and often the ends of the films had multiple splices from theatres that either couldn't do a changeover right or let the end of the reel flap or get caught. The little adhesive tab gave just enough bump that I could find the splice. Good wet splices could be hard to find compared to tape splices.

As for the stuff going on with platter jockeys ripping film apart, there is no excuse.


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William Hooper
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1879
From: Mobile, AL USA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-26-2001 12:05 AM      Profile for William Hooper   Author's Homepage   Email William Hooper   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think it will resolve itself into two components, the first is what John Pytlak would bring up: the need for better education & training.

The second may have to do with the lack of a motivator for doing it right, and one which is fairly common in workplaces where the work quality is poor: working at a theater which devalues worth & attacks your dignity, & for low pay, to boot. It's not just passive, either: actively doing a rotten job at work is a form of assertion & rebellion.


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Mike Spaeth
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1129
From: Marietta, GA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 04-26-2001 01:37 AM      Profile for Mike Spaeth   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Spaeth   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What do you guys think about "Zebra" splicing tape? Personally, I think that it's helpful in that we use the Zebra tape at reel changes, and clear tape to fix breaks, replace lab splices, etc. Plus with the stripe being on the edge, try as I may, I have never seen it on screen.

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Jonathan Haglund
Film Handler

Posts: 81
From: Irvine, CA, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 04-26-2001 03:00 AM      Profile for Jonathan Haglund   Author's Homepage   Email Jonathan Haglund   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The zebra tape i have used seems to be flawed. Its the yellow variety, though I have seen red, and the top and bottom portions overlap at the sproket holes. This ends up cutting out Dolby Digital sound at reel changes, and sometimes the middle stripe cuts out the SR too. The solution to this of course is using 3 perf splice tape, but I havent figured out how to order that yet. Solid yellow spliceing tape is perfect from a break down perspective since its the easiest to see, but its also very noticeable at reel changes. Zebra can be seen in changes and break down, but to a much lesser degree in both instances.

------------------
Jonathan Haglund
Edwards Theatre Circuit, Inc
Park Place 10

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 04-26-2001 03:11 AM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
solid color tape of any kind is bad. It blocks all digital and analog soundtracks. And is very noticable on screen. I think they should make the Zebra tape with one solid bright yellow line going down middle that you would cover the frame line with and not have any that goes across.

They should also have one that has a solide black line that goes down middle for non reel change splices to help bloop out the pop in soundtrack for thos non digital theaters and those who have bad splicers that need to be fixed.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 04-26-2001 04:48 AM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Zebra tape is crap. I use clear tape. It is still easy to see the splice when the show is being dismounted. All you have to do is watch for the splice.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 04-26-2001 06:32 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"Film Done Right" is usually a matter of good common sense. Unfortunately, a few misguided or lazy film handlers don't seem to have any common sense!

Check out all 56 back issues of Kodak's "Film Notes for Reel People" and the more recent "Cinema Notes" in the "Manuals" section of Film-Tech. Each issue usually had at least one article regarding proper film handling.

Another excellent resource is Kodak publication H-23 "The Book of Film Care".

A wealth of other information is available free on the Kodak website:
Kodak Motion Picture Films
Free Kodak Newsletters
Film Storage
Student Handbook Projection
Film Damage
Kodak ScreenCheck Training Program

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-26-2001 07:55 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm with Paul on this. I don't like zebra tape, though I have occasionally used it on really splicy prints where it is necessary to have some way to distinguish between reel change splices and repair splices. Otherwise, I like clear tape.

The only other use for zebra tape that I can see is for assembling trailers which will be run on a platter, where there is a need to be able to find the splices quickly when changing them out. I still prefer clear tape and use it exclusively for assembling trailers for reel-to-reel showings.

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Jamie Hanslip
Film Handler

Posts: 13
From: Southampton, England
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 04-26-2001 09:07 AM      Profile for Jamie Hanslip   Email Jamie Hanslip   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for all the replies,

Sorry I didn't make myself clear in the first post. I have worked as a projectionist for 4 years now, so I know how the film gets damaged. What I want to know is who damages them. I was trained to respect the film and every projectionist I know treats the film with respect to, in theory no prints should arrive with tipex over the picture and sound tracks, but it happens all the time. Is this due to lack of training on some companies behalf, or inexperienced floor staff left to show the film, or bad training practise which is feed from chief to trainee who then goes onto train himself.

What are your experances.

Thanks Jamie.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 04-26-2001 09:10 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jamie asked: "Is this due to lack of training on some companies behalf, or inexperienced
floor staff left to show the film, or bad training practise which is feed from chief to trainee who then goes onto
train himself."

All of the above.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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