|
|
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1 2
|
|
Author
|
Topic: Eastman Stock Question about fading
|
|
|
Jeff Taylor
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 601
From: Chatham, NJ/East Hampton, NY
Registered: Apr 2000
|
posted 04-20-2001 10:58 AM
Not only is it possible, but I've got several. First, although pre-LPP EK positive prints are notorious for fading, lab work and storage conditions have A LOT to do with how soon and how badly they fade. Eventually all will fade to a greater or lesser extend, with the cyan going first, and then the yellow, leaving only red at the end, but many pre-LPP Eastmans still look like the day they were struck. It just happens that the good ones I have were MGM Labs prints, but I've heard good things about Technicolor Labs Eastmans as well, with the worst being the Delux prints which were generally cranked out like sausages with numerous shortcuts in the processing. The rinses seem to be most critical, as leftover developer can speed the fading process. Finally, although SP's were produced from roughly 1978-1980 (and they generally fade to brownish yellow rather than red/pink), Kodak was already working on LPP at that point. In fact, there definitely were runs of 1980 EK printstock which were actually LPP but not marked. For all I know the same could have occurred late in 1979. In any case, your good luck is not a total aberation, and if it hasn't started to fade by now you will probably have many more years of enjoyment from it. As far as precautions go, the only sure bet is to seal it up and freeze it, but keeping it in a cool environment with moderate humidity is always a good idea, and out of direct sunlight. Good luck.
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
John Pytlak
Film God
Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000
|
posted 04-22-2001 06:55 AM
Kodak developed print films with greatly improved dye stability and introduced them in 1979:
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/about/chrono3.shtml "1979 -- EASTMAN Color LF Print film, 7378. Improved cyan dye post processing keeping. Process ECP. Markedly improved cyan dye dark-keeping stability. Discontinued January, 1982.
EASTMAN Color LFSP film, 7379. Same as 7378 except for Process ECP-2. Markedly improved cyan dye dark-keeping stability.1 Discontinued 1983." At first, they were more expensive, since the dye-forming couplers were more expensive to manufacture. A few years later, Kodak introduced the technology for all ECP (5384):
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/about/chrono4.shtml "1982 -- EASTMAN Color Print film, 7/5384 Improved cyan dye dark keeping and red sensitivity to process variations. Process ECP-2A. Replaced 7/5381, 7/5383, 7378, 7379. In SMPTE Journal December 1982 and BKSTS Journal August 1983." Jeff: You are correct that processing (especially washes) and storage conditions greatly affect dye stability. Here are the Kodak recommendations regarding film processing and storage:
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/processing/h249/index.shtml
http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/motion/support/h1/preservation.shtml "Processing -- Processing is one of the most important factors contributing to a film's satisfactory life expectancy. Residual processing chemicals in the film can be detrimental to long life. Residual thiosulfate (hypo) remaining in the processed black-and-white film can fade the silver image by partially converting it to silver sulfide. This is especially true under conditions of high humidity and temperature. Residual silver salts can also cause density changes. If in doubt, the residual hypo content should be determined. The Methylene Blue Method recommended in ISO 18917:1999, Photography--Determination of residual thiosulfate and other related chemicals in processed photographic materials--Methods using iodine-amylose, methylene blue and silver sulfide, is a worldwide standard test to detect residual hypo. Thiosulfate salts allowed to remain in color film can also fade the dye images; one dye will probably be affected more than the other two, causing an undesirable change in color balance and a deterioration of the image. Therefore, color films require as much care in processing and washing as black-and-white films." IMHO, it is very unfair and misleading to make generalizations regarding the quality of laboratory processing, especially since the varied storage conditions of release prints were often quite poor and often caused premature fading.
------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thomas Hauerslev
Master Film Handler
Posts: 451
From: Copenhagen, Denmark
Registered: Aug 2000
|
posted 04-23-2001 09:50 AM
In 1991 I ran a 70mm print of the Russian "The Story of Flaming Years". That print dates back to 1963, when it premiere here in Copenhagen (May 6, to be precise) and it had absolutely great color. I seem to remember it was printed onm AGFA stock. It is ironic since the Danish Film Museum stored all their 70mm prints in a hot vault for ages.An example of non-faded release print is "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" that opened here March 3, 1978. It has not faded. The sprockets are gone, but that's a different story. I also have some 65mm frames dating back to 1953 with splendid colors. Have a look at this: http://hjem.get2net.dk/in70mm/images/70mmframes/70mmbeor%20(3).jpg Btw: It's Mike Todds arm you see. It from Venice when he did Todd-AO test shooting in the summer of 1953. Two years before "Oklahoma!" opened. ------------------
All my best
Thomas
..in70mm - The 70mm Newsletter
www.in70mm.com www.dp70.com www.70mm.dk www.hauerslev.com http://hjem.get2net.dk/in70mm
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jeff Taylor
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 601
From: Chatham, NJ/East Hampton, NY
Registered: Apr 2000
|
posted 04-23-2001 10:04 AM
John: As a long-time collector I've managed to stay mostly with true low fade print stocks (including obviously 'Chrome and IB). When I wrote my response, however, I was thinking of pre-'79 EK release prints I've got of "Meet me in St. Louis" and "North by Northwest" which, to my fairly critical eye, show NO fading whatsoever. In fact, they have the cyan bias on the screen typical of LPP's, although overall color balance is very good. Among other processes, we all know that Agfa and Fuji pre-'79 prints tend to hold up relatively well, but I've also got original release prints of "7 Brides for 7 Brothers" and "High and the Mighty" on Ansco stock which have held up very well, albeit with a slight green bias, and those are from the '50's! To give EK is due, however, I recently retired a '76 Eastman "Enemy Below" (yes-Deluxe)in favor of an LPP and it still had such strong cyan content that it was almost too blue! Go figure. Overall, however, older Fox titles are among the worst for fading IMHO.
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!
Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999
|
posted 04-23-2001 11:06 PM
>>Other than dye transfer and Kodachrome print film, do you have any examples of unfaded release prints made prior to 1979?<<If trailers count, i have an original 1973 'Charlotte's Web' trailer on Fuji stock that has INCREDIBLE color for its age, its not even warming, and no 'Fuji Rot' either!!!
Aaron
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
|
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1 2
|
Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM
6.3.1.2
The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion
and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.
|
Home
Printer-friendly view of this topic