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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » RCA 1040 getting hot (Page 1)

 
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: RCA 1040 getting hot
Harry Robinson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 155
From: Franklin Tennessee
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 04-15-2001 03:01 PM      Profile for Harry Robinson   Email Harry Robinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I had my opening night at my screening room last night, and everything went pretty well, except it bothered me that the motor on my old RCA 1040 sound head got hot. It was so hot at the end of the film that you could see smoke in the projector beam. After I turned everything off I left the room and came back around a half hour later. It was still too hot to touch. I went back this morning and it was cooled down. This seems awfully extreme.

I am running 6000 foot reels. Is this not appropriate? Also, could I have over-oiled the motor? I filled the oil tubes until they spilled over. In fact I've been drenching this thing and the Super Simplex in oil because of all the warnings from techs about tearing up gears. Am I doing thr right thing?

I'm going to an equipment supply place tomorrw. Should I look into getting an SH1000? I have beaten myself to death over this 1040 for over a year. I've rebuilt it and still there is excessive wow in the audio signal. Not to mention the fact that it's a pain in the ass to keep lubricated. Some one please give me some feedback on this today, so I can get a perspective on the subject before I go and spend more money.
Thanks as always.


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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-15-2001 03:34 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Try removeing the projector head and run it for an hour and see if it gets hot
That will either eliminate the Projector as causing to much of a load on it or as the culprit
If it is not the projector take the motor to a good motor shop

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 04-15-2001 04:05 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is projector rolling nice and freely without any binding? Since the 1040 does not have a flywheel, it might be difficult to get an idea by observing the run-down time or hand inching.

Try Gordon's approach, but instead of pulling the projector head, just pull the main drive shaft and the gear in the projector. (same difference, just get the load of the projector head off the motor.)

Also make sure your gearbox is still running smoothly. with no binding.


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Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 04-15-2001 09:53 PM      Profile for Josh Jones   Author's Homepage   Email Josh Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If there is excessive wow, your flyweel could be drying up. I believe wolk has replacements. If not, I have one you can have. Be careful about how much oil you put in the motor. It is possible to over oil it. the oil will then sit in the motor, attract dust, and cause overheating because it will act like insulation.

I also had the premier of my screening room last week. It got very late and one of my friends fell asleep one reel at a time is not the ideal way to show a film, especially when it is 9 reels long!

another $0.02

Josh


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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 04-16-2001 12:24 AM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, Josh, we are going to fix that problem of using only one projector, aren't we?

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Bill Purdy
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 139
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 04-16-2001 11:05 AM      Profile for Bill Purdy   Author's Homepage   Email Bill Purdy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yup, I agree, they do run hot! I used to run the same head in my screening room with an E-7 on it originally, and then later a Century SA. In my case I would run an entire feature from a Double MUT and the heat was significant. You certainly couldn't touch it without pain. The motor on my RCA was a "Robbins & Meyers" rated at 1/4 hp. I think one has to remember that this head was designed in the days of 2000 ft reels when they could rest every twenty minutes. In any case, I decided to not worry about it and I never saw smoke or flame. Maybe your oil level is a contributer to the smoke as you suggest.

------------------
Bill Purdy
Component Engineering

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-16-2001 01:21 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here on the floor of my living room I have a SH-1000.

I couldn't get a good picture of the nameplate but it says, "Temperature rise: 50 deg. C."
If this means what I think it does, then the motor can run at 122 deg. F. ABOVE room temperature. If your room is 70 deg. then that means this baby can get up to 192 deg. !!!


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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-16-2001 01:53 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
These do get quite hot normally. Especially if the projector you are running is a large load such as a Brenkert. These were originally designed for 20 min reels not the lengths you guys are runing on them. There is always a duty factor to take into account plus the age of the motor also needs to be taken into account. Older motors are generally less efficient and will this lack of efficiency is usually disipated as heat.
SH-1000 motors will get very warn to the touch but they should not get really hot even under a heavy load like a Super or E-7. If you run an X-L on an SH-1000 the motor hardly knows that its there at all.
Mark @ GTS

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 04-16-2001 09:02 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Running hot to the touch after several hours use may be normal, but seeing smoke in the air is NOT. Possibly the smoke was from the over-oiling?

You can use a digital meat thermometer to measure the temperature increase of the motor casing --- Taylor makes one with a range of 58 to 302 F. for less than 20 dollars:
http://www.cooking.com/products/shprodde.asp?SKU=102276

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Pete Lawrence
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 192
From: Middleburg, PA
Registered: Aug 1999


 - posted 04-16-2001 09:04 PM      Profile for Pete Lawrence   Email Pete Lawrence   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As some of you may remember both Harry and I were rebuilding 1040's. I have an E7 sitting on top of mine at the moment and am very pleased with the overall performance.

The motors sure do run hot to the touch. If I run a whole feature with maybe 2 to 5 minute stops between reels it's un-comfortable to touch, but not hot enough to damage it in my opinion. When I had things apart I also took the motor apart. It was full of old oil and dust that was blocking up the air paths. Also there were cardboard (the electronics industry calls it fishpaper) baffles to direct the airflow through the fan. These baffles were pretty well warped out of shape and also full of crud. They were constricting the airflow. I just took them out until I get the time to replace them with something better and stiffer like some 1/32" PC board fiberglass sheets. I haven't replaced them yet and things aren't to bad. I think you'll find the air path in your motor is at least partially plugged up from years of use. If you take it apart be carefull, the wires are thin and probably fragile by now. If you don't want to take it apart, you might consider taking it to a motor shop and let them wash it out.

I replaced all the gaskets at the time and haven't had to add any oil to the 1040 since I rebuilt it.

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Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 04-16-2001 10:56 PM      Profile for Josh Jones   Author's Homepage   Email Josh Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
yes I will fix that. But for right now the bracket has a projector hanging on it at the drive in. I also need to cut a hole in the wall, and get another lamp and changeover.

Josh

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 04-16-2001 11:04 PM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Randy,

You must have a very intresting living room floor. Splicers motors and whatelse.

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Harry Robinson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 155
From: Franklin Tennessee
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 04-17-2001 12:19 AM      Profile for Harry Robinson   Email Harry Robinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What a wealth of responses! Thanks guys, as well as those of you who e-mailed me directly. Tonight I had the opportunity to run another feature. It got hot, but there was no smoke. In fact it seems to be cooling down quicker. According to Jim Duncan, an old timer around here who has been around the business for sixty years, I probably severely over-oiled the motor. He said a couple of drops every year or so are enough, and I have been pounding the stuff down it's proverbial throat until it overflowed the oil caps.
Well you guys said to really oil the crap out of these babies. So I guess I'm just rookie of the week. As for the wow problem, I'm going to change out the bearings in the lateral guide roller and see if that makes a difference. I'll let y'all know what happens next.

Oh...I looked at what it would cost to replace my 1040 with an SH1000. I think I'll keep trying.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-17-2001 01:10 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That motor is attached to a SH-1000 which I "found" in an old derelict theatre that was supposed to have been scrapped.

It's in about 80% - 90% working condition. Some of the wires have been cut, the solar cell needs replacing and it's mondo greasy. Still I can turn it over by hand and it'll do 2-3 revs before it stops. Once I get it de-gunked and properly lubed up it oughtta' be even better. That's sitting underneath a Century C projector head that I got from the same place. It', too, is in 90% working order. Just seems to need a lens and a set of plates. The only thing I can find wrong with it is that the shutter timing knob is stuck. (Probably from all the old, hard grease?) I have the both of them just setting together right now. I have put film in them and turned it over by hand. All seems to be in working order. I plan to strip these babies down, clean em' up and put em' back together. I'm not in any hurry to get this done so I figure I'll do my homework on them before I jump in with both feet.

I have the afformentioned splicers. I'll soon be sending two of them to new homes and acquiring at least one more.

I have a stack of boxes with various things in them:
DTS drives that were taken out of theatres when the upgrade kits were installed. I use them to replace other ones as they fail. Doing that is not always a good long-term solution, though. I just use them to get the unit up and running until I can get a set of the new ones ordered. These drives usually fail again in a few months. It's good enough to get the theatre running again on a Friday night, though.

I have a box full of Christie belts... 'Nuff said...

I have another box of JBL H.F. driver domes. I had a rash of them getting blown out and there were a few left over from that.

There are a couple other boxes full of parts for various things that I dig through when I get a call. I take what I think I'll need when something breaks. It saves me from having to order things a lot of the time.

Lastly, I have an old Simplex intermittent that I can't remember where I got it. I do remember that I was hoping to clean it up and use it as an emergency spare. It's pretty messed up. I know it's been taken apart so It's probably way out of alignment. I think it's only use is as a "demonstrator" for when people mess one up, I can say, "See what's in here! That's why they are so damned expensive!"

This isn't half the junk I COULD have! I know where there are about 4 or 5 more SH-1000's... a couple of E-7's... a whole pile of random Simplex parts and even a Bauer 16mm projector (A U-3, if I remember right.) I'm always meaning to post all this junk on the "Wanted" forum but I never have time to catalogue it all.

And to answer your next question.... No, I don't have a woman in the house so there's nobody to yell at me when I bring all this junk home.... "Hey, honey! Look what I found! Can I keep it?"

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 04-17-2001 01:47 AM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Randy, sounds like someone used TOO MUCH WD-40 in the Century!!

(Just hadda say that....)


Harry, next time you tear down the 1040 motor, install some sealed bearings in it. That'll clear the oiling problems...Better still, if you can find an old 1050, rebuild the motor and install that motor with the flywheel on your sound head. You should be able to find the 1050's dirt cheap these days.

It'll be easier on the projector during start-up. That ballast resistor that is in the 1040 motor (which is in series with the start winding) is a joke! I think the 1050 has the resistor also. That makes the 1050 even better. Nice easy starts..



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