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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Pad Roller Lubricant (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Pad Roller Lubricant
Tim Sherman
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 125
From: North Ridgeville, OH, USA
Registered: Aug 2000


 - posted 04-09-2001 06:58 AM      Profile for Tim Sherman   Author's Homepage   Email Tim Sherman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have a few simplex XL's and the pad rollers are starting to slow down and not turn as eaisly as they used to. What is the best lubricant for them. I don't think i wanna use oil i think that it is too thick and won't let them spin freely. I also thought about using powdered graphite, but didn't know if it would create some dust that would work itself onto the film. So im pretty much open for sugestions that any of you may have.

------------------
"Come on out to the drive-in and spend a night out with the stars"
ME!!


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Pat Moore
Master Film Handler

Posts: 363

Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 04-09-2001 08:47 AM      Profile for Pat Moore   Email Pat Moore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tim - The plastic pad rollers need to run on a clean shaft, no lubrication at all. Any lubrication, even graphite, just gums up the works.

A small allen wrench will remove the end knob. Wipe the shaft clean of any oil, and use a cue tip to run through the hole of the pad roller itself. Use a little alcohol if necessary to clean.

When re-installing the knob, be sure to allow enough side play for the roller to move freely.

Pat


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Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 04-09-2001 10:54 AM      Profile for Josh Jones   Author's Homepage   Email Josh Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In my brenkert, I used a little Marvel Mystry oil on the shaft, wiped it off, and reassembled. I also thoroughly cleaned the rollers of any dirt and film gunk.
Is this ok?

Josh

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Rick Long
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 759
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 04-09-2001 11:07 AM      Profile for Rick Long   Email Rick Long   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Pat is right. I have found that ANY type of lubricant will gum them up and stop them from rolling eventually. Clean them well with a little water, soap, and a Q-tip. I also find that a polishing of the shafts with Brasso helps a bit too.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-09-2001 12:38 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'll jump on that bandwagon, too!

Clean them first. IF they still don't work, try making some adjustments like resetting the closure stop or the lateral play. Sometimes they stop turning because they are jammed, or something.

If that still doesn't work then you might need to replace the parts. (But try cleaning them first... that's the cheap and easy soltuion.)

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 04-09-2001 02:48 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Stickey rollers? Hmmmmmmmmmmm....sounds like a classic case of someone using that damn WD-40 again.

As Pat said, keep the shafts and rollers clean and dry. When the rollers are removed, it would be a very good idea to clean the bores.

A little hot water and a mild cleaning solution, such as Simple Green or dish soap, and some cotton swabs will do a great job.

Make sure they are totally dry before re-installing them.

If it has steel pad rollers, order the plastic ones and throw the steel ones away.


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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 04-09-2001 07:48 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
>>"If it has steel pad rollers, order the plastic ones and throw the steel ones away."<<

Alright...I was sitting quitely reading this thread until that one came out!...

The best pad roller I have used is LaVezzi's SOR-422 roller and it is a metal one. It uses oilite bearing so lubrication is necessary. Sure, this means that maintenance is required periodically to clean down and relube but overall they are finely machined polished so as to not abraid the film itself. It is the only double flange roller I will use, metal or plastic.

As to pad roller shaft lubrication with Nylon rollers...The only lubricant should be for the shaft to keep it from rusting (different climates will have different needs). That is, the apply lubricant and then wipe off is the best approach. The pad roller doesn't need it, again this is a rust issue. I would NOT recommend using alchohol (anywhere in the booth) since most of the time people seem to get the rubbing variety, rather than the anhydrous-pure isopropal. Rubbing alcohol has water in it that will surely start rusting parts. It also isn't the best thing for the older painted parts.

There is my $.02

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 04-09-2001 08:31 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve, I was referring to the old ones. Those are the most common.

I don't think there are that many of the ones you described are in service yet. I would never use them, anyway.

I have seen metal ones used in Century projectors and sound heads wear to such a point where it has caused film damage. Likewise, I have seen the same occur in Simplex equipment using either steel or split steel rollers.

As a rule, no lubricant should be used with nylon pad rollers. The shafts will not rust unless the machine has been sitting idle for years in a humid climate.

I also suggested earlier to make sure the pad rollers are completely dry before re-installation.

Oilite bushings should never be oiled. The equipment manufacturers of some of the stuff I deal with will void the warrenty if they are lubricated. I have been in the precision mechanical field too long, (over 40 years now)and I have seen many failures attributed to the oiling of Oilite bushings.

I have also discovered the service requirements were a minimum of a hundred times less without oiling.

I do maintain alcohol in the booth to be used to wash a xenon bulb if it is suspected to be contaminated by a greasy finger print, or whatever. Just plain clean rubbing alcohol and distilled water works great.

So far, I never had a bulb blow up after it was cleaned with rubbing alcohol and distilled water, and I have been doing that over a period of 28 years.



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Joe Schmidt
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 172
From: Billings, Montana, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 04-10-2001 04:45 AM      Profile for Joe Schmidt   Email Joe Schmidt   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yecccch to plastic pad rollers, I say.

Of course, I am an Obsolete Person and have always preferred nice metal pad rollers after having seen so many plastic ones froze up and running flat.

Assuming the little shaft the pad roller slides onto has not been damaged by neglect, what one does is pull off the plastic, discard, clean the shaft with a suitable solvent: 1,1,1-trichloroethane is best if you can get it, cleans beautifully and destroys all grease and gunk. Apply a drop of projector oil [not too much] install the new roller and adjust correctly. It will spin freely.

I was always extremely fussy about pad rollers. They need to be checked occasionally, cleaned and re-lubricated. Adjust carefully, 2 thicknesses of film between sprocket surface and roller.

All quite Elementary, my dear Watson. Just one of many little things competent Projectionists used to look after before their Craft was Wiped Out by automation.


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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 04-10-2001 06:57 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, Joe. 1,1,1-thrichloroethane technical was one of the best degreasers out there, until the enviromentalists killed it.

Selling that stuff is illegal now, from what I understand.

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Joe Schmidt
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 172
From: Billings, Montana, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 04-11-2001 04:36 AM      Profile for Joe Schmidt   Email Joe Schmidt   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah, Paul, I think that's right; you can't actually get trichloro any more. Eons ago I used to be able to get it in gallon cans of "IBM Cleaning Fluid," one difficulty was it was very volatile and evaporated easily & thus lost some of its punch. Was also the ingredient of "Energine," widely sold in small cans, at least fresh, but expensive that way. Also, with xylene it was the main ingredient of Ampex Head Cleaning Solvent for mag heads of all kinds; here you can substitute 90%+ isopropyl alcohol which is very cheap.

On reflection it was nasty stuff and had to be used in a well-ventilated area & don't breathe the noxious fumes. Would remove every bit of body oil from one's fingers.

What would you suggest as the best equivalency to use today? New Energine, or something else? Old-fashioned gasoline works too in a pinch, but dangerous, the most I would carry loose is a small canful.

However, don't try to clean anything with Pepsi-Cola. That stuff's even more expensive per gallon than gasoline, thus why everybody whines about the price of gas I cannot understand!

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 04-11-2001 06:22 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
http://www.pyr.ec.gc.ca/ep/ozone/ofdamage.html
http://www.greenpeace.org/~ozone/chlorine/6chlor.html

"Methyl Chloroform (also known as 1,1,1-trichloroethane): Used as a solvent, containing carbon, hydrogen and chlorine. Its atmospheric lifetime is 6.1 years. The Montreal Protocol caps production and consumption of methyl chloroform."

"The full name of this international treaty is the "Montreal Protocol on Substances That Deplete the Ozone Layer." This agreement was signed in Montreal, Canada, on September 16, 1987, entered into force on January 1, 1989, and subsequently amended in London (June 1990) and Copenhagen, Denmark (November 1992). It followed the signing of the Vienna Convention for the Protection of the Ozone Layer in 1985."

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 04-11-2001 03:05 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joe, you are not going to believe this, but I use freshly made coffee to clean my glasses when I am sitting in a restaurant. Works great! The people think I am nuts, but the product speaks for itself.

Coca-Cola works great on car windshields, too. Since I live in the bounce pattern of our wonderful navy-issue A6-E aircraft that leak hydraulic fluid and jet fuel, sometimes a fine mist covers my windshields. Coke will clean that stuff right off. But, it'll also chew paint off the car if you don't follow up with a garden hose.

When I was a kid, I dumped about 6 bottles of coke in a bowl, and placed an old alarm clock in it. It chewed the mainspring in half in less than 12 hours.

Coke also works good to free rusted pistons in Harley-Davidson motorcycles....Dump a bottle of coke in each cylinder, wait 12 hours, and the pistons practically fall out.

Of course, I would never recommend coffee or coke to clean roller shafts..

For a substitute for Thrichloro, I found the non-flammable Brake-Kleen works very well, but it does attack some plastics quite violently, more so than thrichloroethane. It won't attack nylon pad rollers, but the fumes are still toxic. Use only in a well ventilated space.

John, thanks for the information you provided about thrichloroethane.


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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 04-11-2001 04:52 PM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This may sound dumb, but can anyone go through step by step how to remove and instal pad rollers on Christie projectors? I'm tired of having to wait for our tech to come out and do it and I should be able to do something so simple.

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Tim Sherman
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 125
From: North Ridgeville, OH, USA
Registered: Aug 2000


 - posted 04-11-2001 09:40 PM      Profile for Tim Sherman   Author's Homepage   Email Tim Sherman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Everyone thanks for the help. I tried out what you suggested and cleaned off the steel shafts and the pad rollers. And you guys were right they now spin very freely.

Paul you had a good call about the WD-40. i had never used the stuff on the machines but The projectionist i had in my booth for years loved the stuff... why i have no idea. but that kinda explains why he isn't there any longer.

------------------
http://www.autoramadrivein.com
"Come
on out to the drive-in and spend a night out with the stars"
ME!!

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