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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » REPLACEMENT LED's

   
Author Topic: REPLACEMENT LED's
Francis Casey
Film Handler

Posts: 44
From: Saint John, NB, Canada
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 02-04-2001 03:30 PM      Profile for Francis Casey   Email Francis Casey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello all
I contacted Lonny at Dolby about getting replacement LED's...for everyones information , below is my question to him and his reply .

" Hi Lonny
I have a question for you . Is the LED in the Cat 701 the same as is used in Component engineering , Kelmar and other makes of rverse scan readers ?
I am trying to find the least expensive source of replacement LED's . I just received 12 LED's that i ordered ( from Strong ) for one of our theatres where they are starting to loose steam ( over 9000 hours on
them ) . The cost in canadian dollars $4000 that is about $333 each canadian or about $250 or $275 US !
What do you folks charge for your LED's ? Is there a way to buy them direct from the manufacturer ? "

Lonny's reply :

" Francis:
The LED's are the same for everybody because they all come from us. You can purchase replacement LED's from us directly if you like. The part number is DPN 32075 and it lists for US$60.00. If you are replacing the LED in a Cat. No. 701 then the best thing is to do an RXO on the whole LED assembly. If done that way the DPN is 83308 and it would be under warranty. "

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John Eickhof
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 588
From: Wendell, ID USA
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 02-04-2001 03:35 PM      Profile for John Eickhof   Author's Homepage   Email John Eickhof   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I just received a price update from Kelmar, the replacement LEDs are list priced at $150.00 now. (they were @ $215.00!) They say Dolby has dropped the price! I would retail these for approx. $115.00 each...

------------------
John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com

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Bill Purdy
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 139
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 02-05-2001 09:23 AM      Profile for Bill Purdy   Author's Homepage   Email Bill Purdy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Component Engineering's current List price is US$145.00 for replacements. The final cost will depend upon your dealer. We normally supply them with the leads clipped to fit our plug-in mounting, but if you are ordering them for other readers you should specify that you don't want the leads cut.

------------------
Bill Purdy
Component Engineering

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Matthew Bailey
Master Film Handler

Posts: 461
From: Port Arthur,TX
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 02-05-2001 11:54 AM      Profile for Matthew Bailey   Email Matthew Bailey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
LED'S that emit white light are now in use.
Radio Shack sells them for a few cents or more.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 02-05-2001 12:36 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Matthew:

You do NOT want to use "white light" LEDs, as they will not be compatible with future prints having cyan dye analog tracks, which require RED LEDs. AFAIK, none of the reader manufacturers have certified the use of other LEDs.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 02-05-2001 08:44 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John,

Not that I'm advocating the use of RS white LEDs...

But what future of cyan tracks? Heck, I just opened a new 6-plex and there were only two prints that even had high-magenta. Not even Warner Bros is using High-Magenta all of the time.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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John Eickhof
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 588
From: Wendell, ID USA
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 02-05-2001 08:57 PM      Profile for John Eickhof   Author's Homepage   Email John Eickhof   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I had a call from a customer in California last Friday who stated he had received a print with the CYAN track!(I forgot to ask the title) Unfortunately, none of the six screens at the complex have been converted! He verified it was cyan (greenish blue) colored and they tried to play it with poor sound, more noise than signal, he called the booker who in tern found that 100 prints were sent at random last week to see actual theatre compatability! Obviously this one isn't!
It appears that Cyan is on the way....

------------------
John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 02-06-2001 05:55 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John --- the trade test of cyan dye tracks was indeed scheduled to occur early this year, with about 25 cyan dyetrack prints being made. BUT, they were supposed to only be sent to theatres known to be equipped with red LED readers. If your report of a theatre without red LED getting a cyan dyetrack is correct, the errant prints need to be tracked down to be sure they only go to theatres with red LEDs. Can you get the title, print number and theatre information?

Has anyone else received a print with a cyan colored analog soundtrack?

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-06-2001 06:42 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Assuming the existence of red LED-equipped soundheads, what, if any, alignment or other changes are necessary to properly reproduce cyan tracks? Can a theatre show color prints with silver or high-magenta tracks, B&W prints with silver tracks, IB prints with silver tracks, and color prints with cyan tracks all without modification or alignment changes?

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 02-06-2001 07:53 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kodak's website has information regarding the implementation of cyan dye analog soundtracks:
http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/motion/support/dyetrack.shtml#sound

A cyan dye track will have unacceptable signal-to-noise when played on a white light or infrared reader. On a red LED reader, the cyan track will have about -2dB signal-to-noise compared to a standard dye+silver track on the same red LED reader, so noise reduction (e.g., Dolby SR) is recommended.

Traditional color print soundtracks (cyan + magenta + silver) had a slightly different cross-modulation distortion optimization between white light and red LED readers, and needed to be optimized for one or the other. For example, if an old soundtrack were optimized for a white light reader, it could have slightly more XM-distortion on a red LED reader, and vice-versa. The interim "high magenta" (magenta + silver) track is more compatible with both readers.

Jess Daily of the UCLA Film Archives ran extensive comparitive testing of a variety of older soundtracks on white light and red LED readers, and found no major compatibility problems. As with any analog soundtrack, different recording levels may require adjustment of the fader between different prints. I assume Dolby and others will make alignment films specifically for the cyan dye tracks.

Current dye + silver soundtracks require application of a viscous, caustic B&W developer to the soundtrack area during processing of the prints. If the developer splashes or bleeds onto the picture area, silver is redeveloped, leaving a grayish blotch or stain. If the silver soundtrack application "skips", there will be pops or dropouts or "whooshing" in the analog sound.
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/processing/h242/h2402_03.shtml#159763
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/processing/h249/h2409_05.shtml

Laboratories efficiently recover most of the silver in the film from the fixer solution. But the silver in the soundtrack remains in the film, and goes into the environment if prints go into a landfill or are improperly incinerated without silver recovery from the fly ash.
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/processing/h245/h24056.shtml#164271

Industry adoption of cyan dye analog soundtracks will eliminate the print quality problems associated with silver soundtrack application, and reduce the amount of silver released to the environment.

Reverse scan red LED readers have advantages that can justify their installation for all current soundtracks. The compatibility with future cyan dye soundtracks is a bonus.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 02-06-2001 04:26 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
>>"Industry adoption of cyan dye analog soundtracks will eliminate the print quality problems associated with silver soundtrack application, and reduce the amount of silver released to the environment."<<

Nope, just create new ones with an inferior track.

The reported cyan distribution to a non-red reader theatre shows the kind of bumbling science that has been going on with the whole cyan red-reader agenda.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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