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Topic: 1940's automation

Daryl Lund
Film Handler

Posts: 88
From: Chehalis,WA, USA
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 02-04-2001 02:22 PM

A old friend stopped by the theatre today with a booth picture taken in 1948 of the Liberty theatre in Centralia WA. This booth had automatic changovers with 2000ft reels. Dose anyone have any info on this old invention?

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John Eickhof
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 588
From: Wendell, ID USA
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 02-04-2001 03:39 PM

I sure would like to see the picture! I have a set of early automation devices that resemble a clock, you would set the arms of it to the footage of the current reel, then at the appropriate time (as pre set) it would clsoe a switch to start motor & lamp (using a piece of pencil lead across arc gap) and then close a changeover switch seven seconds later! These were made in Los Angeles, I can't remember the name on them but I will find one and get some pictures! They are of the 1940s vintage and were driven off the soundhead / projector main drive gear. Can you email me a picture of the booth? Thanks!

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John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com

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Daryl Lund
Film Handler

Posts: 88
From: Chehalis,WA, USA
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 02-04-2001 05:40 PM

John Yes I will get you a picture. I am not very good at running my scaner but I will get kenny layton to help. The Changeover looks like it is on the end of the top magazine shaft. You put tabs in as you are rewinding. There two tabs, one rings a buzzer telling you to strike the arc, an i think it starts the motor.The second trips the change over. It works on murcury switchs. John I had lunch with Andy Crow and He said what a great job you do at the Wilma Theatre, and said to post a hello

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John Eickhof
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 588
From: Wendell, ID USA
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 02-04-2001 10:47 PM

Thanks! Send my Regards to Andy and Ken also!
The unit I was talking about was called 'Cue Meter' they are about 8 inches in diameter,mounted on the front wall of the booth over the projection port, and the clock hands actually count down backwards as the projector operates, I understand they were made by a studio projectionist in LA in the late forties.
They were directly driven either off the shutter shaft or the projector main drive gear with a 'speedometer' type cable.
They were furnished with switches to either actuate a buzzer like you are talking about, or could be hooked up to relay / contactors to actually do the changeover!

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John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com

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Bill Purdy
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 139
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: Oct 1999

posted 02-05-2001 09:41 AM

I have never seen the full system, but as I understand it there was something designed by a dentist in Yakima, WA. You had to have special reels which had two little hinged tabs which you folded down at just the right number of turns of film on the reel. (I guess you did this while rewinding.) These tabs worked against two pins which went through the center of the spindle and in turn triggered the motor and change-over events. Presumably you still had to strike the arc and all that, you just didn't have to watch for the cues. I'd love to have seen the whole thing operate.

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Bill Purdy
Component Engineering

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Robert Throop
Master Film Handler

Posts: 412
From: Vernon, NY USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-05-2001 10:18 AM

John,
The Cuemeter was actually made about 1930.
I have some issues of Motion Picture Projectionist from that era with ads for it.
They used flashing lights for the "motor" and "changeover" cues. A demonstration was run at a "major Hollywood theatre" with the observation ports closed and a perfect changeover every time.
The Standard Release Print was introduced about 1930 and there was some opposition by purists who felt that the black dots marred the presentation.
The Cinerama Dome had Cuemeters installed on their DP70's. I witnessed them in operation when I was there in 1984 with 5000 ft. reels. The DP70's have since been replaced with Centurys and platters grrrr.

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Bob Throop

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-05-2001 11:17 AM

Bill, Are you anticipating comming out with a newer version of the Cue Meter? That would be a one of a kind system that you could hold the market on for a long time to come....Perhaps an upgraded Digital Cinema version to automaticall changeover to the backup digital projector????
Mark @ GTS

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-05-2001 01:19 PM

I'd love to see this device, just for historical value.
Honestly, though, I can't imagine that a footage counter could possibly be more accurate than a human watching cue marks, and I would think that it would be more trouble to measure out each reel and re-set the counter after every changeover than to just run everything manually, particularly with carbon-arc lamps.
I am quite sure that I can personally do manual changeovers that are accurate to within 2-3 frames after a couple of shows of the same movie. I'm sure that there are others who can consistantly do better than that.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 02-05-2001 01:40 PM

I would think a simple conductive foil cue placed on the film would not have been beyond the technology of the time. Or even (heaven forbid

) NOTCHING the edge of the print to be picked up by a microswitch, which was once the way original negatives were "cued" to make printer light changes.

I recall from experience that using a carbon/graphite fusible link to automate the ignition of a carbon arc was not very reliable. The power would come on, the fusible link would go "pfft", and the arc MIGHT be lit.

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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Daryl Lund
Film Handler

Posts: 88
From: Chehalis,WA, USA
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 02-05-2001 05:18 PM

Bill I called my friend and He said that the ones he ran had the hinged tabs. Also the Fox in seattle had the same system.The theatres also used to tap in to the street car lines for there DC power for the arcs.

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999

posted 02-05-2001 06:04 PM

The old-timer who trained me told me you could buy these carbon "balls" that were held in place between the rods. They made 2-3 different sizes, depending on what size gap you needed.

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John Eickhof
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 588
From: Wendell, ID USA
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 02-05-2001 09:04 PM

During the late sixties & early seventies when automation was first gaining wide use, National Carbon (Union Carbide) actually
made auto starters for the arcs! They were a
pencil thin piece of carbon at a length to suit the particular arc lamp and they were notched to fit against the face of the Pos &
Neg sticks, when the power was energized, the starter would vaporize into a spark and light the arc! There were also companies like Best products who made spring loaded & solenoid operated starter assys for medium intensity lamps like the Brenkert Enarc, Peerless, and Strong lamps, these would pivot the negative stick into the positive, then slowly retract to normal arc gap! We had several sets of these operating when I first started in the 70s! Thanks for the additional info on the cue meters! I will get some pix of them soon!

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John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-06-2001 06:08 PM

Raven Labs used to make a rotory solendoid that fitted onto the negative clutch of a peerless with a current sensing relay to autostrike
Very effective device

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Robert Throop
Master Film Handler

Posts: 412
From: Vernon, NY USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-07-2001 09:18 AM

I just received issue 64 of IN70mm, Thomas Haursev's 70mm newsletter. There is an article about Grandeur and a picture of the Grandeur installation at the Carthay Circle theatre in Hollywood. A Cinemeter is clearly visible on the front wall of the booth between the two rightmost projectors.

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Bob Throop

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Robert Throop
Master Film Handler

Posts: 412
From: Vernon, NY USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-07-2001 09:20 AM

Sorry I wrote "Cinemeter" and meant "Cuemeter". OOPS!

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Bob Throop

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