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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Projection Port Glass Cleaning. (Page 1)

 
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: Projection Port Glass Cleaning.
Robert Maar
Film Handler

Posts: 0
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Aug 2000


 - posted 01-21-2001 10:57 AM      Profile for Robert Maar   Email Robert Maar   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Have you ever noticed how dirty the projection port glass looks from the auditorium side, when the projector is running.

Does anyone have a solution for keeping this glass clean.

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 01-21-2001 11:32 AM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If you can reach the other side. Use some glass cleaner and paper towels.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 01-21-2001 01:11 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Get yourself lens cleaner, McDonald's napkins and a small 2x4 inch sanding block from a hardware store. Using 3-4 napkins at a time, wrap them on the sanding side of the block and douse the napkins fairly generously with lens cleaner. Wipe the inside of the glass with medium pressure (nothing strenuous) in a vertical motion. Then IMMEDIATELY take a few more napkins and lay them on the sanding block and press HARD on the glass to wipe it dry, again using vertical strokes. Repeat this procedure for the auditorium side, but wipe this one in a horizintal fashion. Then turn on the projector and xenon with no film in the projector and take a look at your glass. If you see any vertical streaks, they are on the inside of the glass and you can generally touch them up with a dry napkin. If the streaks are horizontal, they are on the outside of the glass and again you can generally fix it with a dry napkin.

There's just something about those McDonald's napkins that works wonders on optical glass. However you must have the sanding block to do a good job. Don't try and use other kinds of napkins, as McDonald's has the only good ones for this job. The lens cleaner will get off that baked on cheap glass cleaner residue. When you are done, you will not be able to tell there is glass in the window frame.

Oh yes, since this topic is in regards to film projection, I am moving it to the Film Handler's Forum.


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Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 01-21-2001 02:39 PM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So, uh, Brad? Are there McDonald's napkins in the secret ingredients of Film-guard?
Or is it Micky D's french fry oil, which would probably be better at cleaning film than cooking fries? (PS, if we're going to talk about McDonalds, you really need to add a smilie that barfs)

BTW, Kim-wipes are lint free cleaning tissues that work well cleaning port glass.

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Pete Lawrence
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 192
From: Middleburg, PA
Registered: Aug 1999


 - posted 01-21-2001 03:01 PM      Profile for Pete Lawrence   Email Pete Lawrence   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'll take a Big Mac, large fries, a Coke, and a case of napkins, please!

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 01-21-2001 03:47 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Jerry, don't tell anyone, but it's their special secret sauce on the Big Mac's that makes FG work so well.

Seriously though, next time you're there grab a stack of their napkins. You'll be amazed!

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Daryl Lund
Film Handler

Posts: 88
From: Chehalis,WA, USA
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 01-21-2001 04:43 PM      Profile for Daryl Lund   Email Daryl Lund   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What kind of glass schould you use? I think I still have the 1938 window glass.

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Robert Maar
Film Handler

Posts: 0
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Aug 2000


 - posted 01-21-2001 05:35 PM      Profile for Robert Maar   Email Robert Maar   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks Brad for the creative advice. This problem has been a source of irritation for many moons. I will give your solution a try. I have tried many ways to eliminate the streaks with minor success. Someday you will have to tell me how you came upon this formula.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-21-2001 05:56 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The "right" kind of glass would be some kind of fancy coated optical glass. You don't want to know what this costs.

I've had the same problem with scratched plexiglass ports. My solution was to go to a glass store and buy four 13.5" square (for 12" square ports) pieces of picture-frame glass. Total cost was about $7. You really only need to replace the ports in front of the projector lenses, but I like to be able to have a clear view of the screen for focusing.

I will add that this was the best $7 I ever spent on booth supplies (since I was working for people who were too cheap to reimburse me for such things)... There was a big improvement in brightness and sharpness--much more than I would have expected, given the Kollmorgen Super Snaplites we were using.

Optical glass would be better, of course, but that's expensive and hard to find and maybe not really worthwhile unless you have ISCO or Schneider lenses (or anything else that's similarly good).

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Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 01-21-2001 10:18 PM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Scott, I have two panes of 5" x 7" twin polished optically flat glass that I purchased from Edmund Scientific years ago.

I put two similar pieces in an old booth, and to be frank, I didn't notice any earth shattering difference from the plain float glass that was being used. I suspect that a coated glass would be an improvement, but I remember doing some calcs about that time and being amazed at how forgiving the projected beam was even a foot or so out of the lens, and how plexiglas had a lower refractive index and (if flat) made a better choice than glass. (John P. do you have any references?)

I 'spoze I should sell the glass. It has been cluttering a shelf for over 25 years (still in the original manila envelopes).

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-21-2001 11:18 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Port glass cleaning has been a thorn in my side from day one!

I've tried everything I could think of...

Denatured Alcohol. -- Dissolves the dirt but it dries too fast before you can completely remove the dirt and leaves residue.

Lens cleaner. -- Didn't dissolve the dirt well enough. (But I will try again, using Brad's "secret weapon")

Isopropyl Alcohol. -- The common garden variety (70% or 90%) does okay but you have to work fast or it'll dry up too. Then the alcohol dries faster than the water and that leaves streaks if you don't dry it up before the alcohol is gone.

Pure, "anhydrous" isopropyl alcohol. -- See denatured alcohol, above.

Various "industrial" cleaner/degreasers, like "carbon-tet", tricloroethane, acetone... you name it. -- I tried a small patch in one corner, first. I just took one look and quit. It makes it worse. Just don't go there! I don't even know why I tried, except out of desperation. (How did I get my hands on that kind of stuff? Don't ask questions that'll get somebody into trouble, okay.)


The only thing that I have found that does a half-decent job is Windex®. Not Glass Plus. Not "lemon-scented... Not "no-drip"... Not "potpourri fresh"... Just plain, old-fashioned, ordinary Windex-with-a-"W".... Windex!

I found that you must use the MINIMUM amount to wet the window. Maybe even just one squirt if that's all you need. Any more and you just make a big mess. Spread the liquid evenly over the window with the first paper towel. Flip it over and wipe it clean, then get another DRY paper towel and WIPE LIKE HELL until it's completely dry!

This is the only thing that I have tried that even does a "passable" job, but you have to work up a sweat to do it right. Do that every day for a week in a 17-screener and you can loose some weight!

It's a breath of fresh air to hear of this solution! You can bet that tomorrow, on my way to my next theatre, I'm going to Mickey-D's and then to Sears!

I haven't darkened the doorstep of a Mickey-D's in such a long time I can't even remember. The food down South is so good I'd probably hurl from the crap.

I guess everybody has to "Take one for the team" every once in a while!

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 01-21-2001 11:35 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Remember to follow the instructions specifically. Do NOT spray the lens cleaner onto the glass. Spray (drip) the lens cleaner liberally onto the multiple layers of McDonald's napkins and THEN wipe the glass with light pressure on the wet napkins and then hard pressure with the dry napkins. You will also need one of those 2x4" sanding blocks to do it right. Also, do not blast the xenon lamp through the glass until you have thouroughly wiped it all dry or you will "burn" it onto the glass from the heat and have to clean it again.

F.Y.I. I've always used Rosco lens cleaner, but my preference is Kodak for personal use. Unfortunately the Kodak stuff is more expensive and most theaters will not buy it.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 01-22-2001 07:29 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Optical quality port glass with anti-reflection coatings will produce the best contrast and have the least light loss. If you can easily "watch the movie" on the port glass, it is a "contrast killer" for the image on the screen:
http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/motion/newsletters/reel/december99/pytlak.shtml
http://www.cssinc.com/CSS_pro_glass.htm
http://www.cinemaequipmentsales.com/dolby9.html
http://goldbergbrothers.uswestdex.com/

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 01-22-2001 12:52 PM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The note on Windex reminded me <doh!> I did some tests on various glass cleaners a few years back, because we were entering into a yearly contract with a janitorial supplier.

I smeared glass with popcorn oil, dust, dirt, etc. then cleaned the glass with various cleaners and did a side by side comparison of the results.

IIRC I tried about a dozen types of glass cleaners, ammonia, iso alcohol, wiping with newspaper, wiping with paper towels, etc.

The best product _by far_ was the aerosol can of "Misty" glass cleaner by Amrep, out of Atlanta. The reputation of the product predated my test by a number of years. I remember Cowboy of P&W complaining that Misty shouldn't be sprayed inside projectors, long before I knew what or who "Misty" was. I'm sure Misty would rip the coating off lenses, so I see Cowboy's point.

BTW, if you want to have some fun with customers, do a glass cleaner test like I did, by smearing crud on the front doors of the lobby in the middle of the day. You'll get some interesting double takes and comments.


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Tom Sauter
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 163
From: Buffalo, NY, USA
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 01-22-2001 03:06 PM      Profile for Tom Sauter   Author's Homepage   Email Tom Sauter   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Between theatre jobs I've occasionally worked as a window cleaner and used 2 different methods. I hope I can add Brad's suggetion to my repertoire!

1) Bounty and Windex (no substitutions)

2) 1 cup vinegar : 1 gallon water , squeegee dry and mop up the runoff

Optical glass can look really good, just don't go for the double-paned soundproof crap they put in my booth! Its quite a maneuver to clean between the pains (sic) .

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