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Author Topic: Xenon Lamps-How Much Can They Be Cut Back
Bill Enos
Film God

Posts: 2081
From: Richmond, Virginia, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 01-18-2001 12:00 AM      Profile for Bill Enos   Email Bill Enos   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Looks like the old faithful Peerless Magnarcs will become history in the next 6 months. The question is this--since we need 3000 watts, is it more economical to use 3000 watt lamps at or near full or 4000 watt lamps and cut back some. Will the 4000 last longer at reduced power than the smaller bulb at full?
If so, would it offset the higher cost? Is it typically possible to install lower wattage bulb in a higher wattage lamp if all doesn't work out? What is you choice in brands--Strong, Christie, Xetron, whatever?

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-18-2001 05:34 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There is a sheet in the box with each xenon lamp that says what you should burn it at, current and voltage wise.

In my experience, you should keep your lamp burning at no less than 80% of its rated maximum current. You can go over or under by a couple of amps but that's it.

By a "couple", I mean one or two amps.

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Darryl Spicer
Film God

Posts: 3250
From: Lexington, KY, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 01-18-2001 09:01 AM      Profile for Darryl Spicer     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
First off you need to know and understand how much your power supply can handle. If you have to turn the power supply way up in order to get the propper light output then your suplly may not be big enough. Some suplies are rated differently and require bigger diodes or capacitors to opperate properly. Your power suplply should not have to work so hard. If it requires exceeding the maximum current rating of the bulb to achieve the wattage of the bulb then the power supply is to small. the ideal calculation is if you can maintain the amps and the voltage midway within the minimume and maximum ratings the better. Multiply the volts x amps and this will give you the total watts the bulb is running at. You want to try not to go above or below the total wattage of the bulb by more than 200 watts.

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 01-18-2001 11:07 AM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Xetron lamps (consoles) we have are designed in a "generic" manner, ie: you can put a 3000 or 4000 watt bulb in them by changing adaptors. (And we put in a 4000 watt power supply.) The adaptors are made of brass- the negative one is screwed in the socket, and the positive is held (set screws) to the end of the bulb. The power supply will ignite either (of course, if there's a 3000 watt bulb installed, it has to be turned down.)

I would strongly encourage the purchase of such a setup. I'm sure other manufacturers offer the ablity to change bulbs. It will be more expensive to buy a 4000 watt lamp/ power supply, but it will allow some options. If you think the light is too low after you try 3000w, you can go to 4000w. If you ever run 3D, (unlikely, but a 3D film festival is always fun) the additional light will be handy to have. Maybe, 70mm will make a come-back, etc..

There is a price difference between bulbs. I haven't checked recently, but I thought a 3000w bulb costs (something like) $300 (rated for 1200hrs) and a 4000w costs $500 (rated for 800hrs.) Whatever it is, I think there is a big price difference. But, if the screen is dark, you need whatever is required. (What size screen and throw? Is it a matte-white screen, or a gain?)

Wheather you can get away with "overdriving" a 3000w, or reducing a 4000w (to see which is cost-effective in the long run) is hard to say, because I don't know of anyone doing that (hence, no data.) I would feel uncomfortable powering a 3000w bulb over 3000w- ie: I would not go over 100% of it's rated power. On the other hand, (Randy is right) I would not reduce a 4000 bulb to less than 80% (3200w.)

To find apx. wattage required for screen size:
height of screen (squared) times 12 - or:

If your screen is 32ft x 17ft. (I use flat, as it is 'worst-case') that would be:

17 (squared) * 12 = 3468watts
(a 3000w bulb can't be turned up high enough to provided the required light.)

Also, you will need to check the exhaust system. Arc lamps liked a "large amount at low velocity" air flow, but xenons like a higher velocity (350-500cfm, if I remember.) I believe air flow plays a very important part in lamp life, enough so that replacing roof fans and ducts could pay for itself (in longer-lasting bulb life) several times over in just a few years.

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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 01-18-2001 11:53 AM      Profile for Aaron Sisemore   Email Aaron Sisemore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am a big fan of Strong lamphouses and consoles, although the newer Xetrons and Christies are good bets too.

Seeing you are replacing just the old Magnarcs, assuming you are keeping the original pedestals, you would need a standard lamphouse like the Strong Super-80 (3000-7000w capacity, with the corresponding power supply).

As for bulbs: the larger the bulb, the shorter the warranty life, especially if running horizontally. DO NOT run the bulbs at too low a current (below 80-85% of max rating), as all it will do is give you poor performance and shortened lamp life.

As for brands of bulbs: Osram and Christie (Ushio) bulbs are excellent performers in any wattage. *AVOID* the following brands:

ORC/EG&G/PerkinElmer (some of the OEM 'brands' of bulbs (Like the 'CFS' bulbs) were made by ORC)

'Cine-Lite' (and any other Chinese-made bulbs)

Yumex (Though made by former Ushio people, the quality control is pretty spotty)

as always, YMMV...

Aaron



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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 01-18-2001 01:00 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Always stay within the current range recommended by the lamp manufacturer. Exceeding the maximum rated current will greatly increase the risk of catastrophic explosion. But running a lamp below it's minimum recommended current often produces lamp blackening and electrode wear, as the lamp is not running hot enough to keep the tungsten from depositing on the lamp envelope.

Obviously, a larger lamp will use more electricity. And as noted by others, larger lamps cost more, and have a shorter warrantee. Always choose a lamp that will allow you to meet the SMPTE standard screen luminance of 16 footlamberts throughout its life (light output decreases as a lamp ages).

It's usually easier to deal with an abundance of light, rather than have a lamp that is too small to meet SMPTE standards. You can trade the extra light for improved illumination uniformity, or perhaps even consider a 3-blade shutter to reduce flicker perception. Note that the SMPTE standard allows theatres to be as bright as 22 footlamberts, which IMHO makes most (not all) movies look better. In other words, if you can afford the slightly greater operational cost, err on the side of having a larger lamp than needed.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com


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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 01-18-2001 08:05 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have always started my new bulbs at 80% rated value, and increased it to 100% as the lamp aged. I have gotten excellent performance from the bulbs. And, yes to John and Aaron - overdriving the bulb may very well cause some nasty noises that sound similar to a 33 gallon trash can full of empty beer bottles being tossed out a second story window. And, yes, under-powering the bulb will certainly cause an early failure.

As stated somewheres, make sure your power supply has enough capacity to handle the desired operating current so that power supply filtering is not compromised.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-18-2001 09:28 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually on some supplies filtering gets worse as the current is reduced and on at least one brand of supply getting sufficient boost voltage is also a problem when turned down

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Jonathan M. Crist
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 531
From: Hershey, PA, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 01-19-2001 02:06 PM      Profile for Jonathan M. Crist   Email Jonathan M. Crist   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I believe that the Osram literature accompanying their bulbs recommends no less than 85% of rated capacity.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-19-2001 04:52 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here's a question........If lowering the current too low is bad then why are there rectifier/lamphouses with simmer mode? This is supposed to give longer life but how does this work. I believe Imax does this as well.
Mark

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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 01-19-2001 07:46 PM      Profile for Paul Mayer   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Mayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'd like to hear about that too. At Caesars Palace Omnimax we used water-cooled 15KW Duratest lamps running about 400A when operating and about 190A when "idling" between shows. How'd they do that?

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-19-2001 09:31 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Certain lamps didn't like the standby mode and would blacken very quickly
The only lamps designed for standby mode from day one were the ushio HTP lamps when used in the xebex lamphouses that changed the stabalization magnetic field to match the lower current

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 01-19-2001 10:07 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Christie/Ushio lamps have a card with each lamp that list that particular lamp's range and I have found it to be good for their lamps, including what the lamp was measured at the factory (their numbers always matched mine).

Christie lamps also have an incredible range...eg their CXL-20R has a range of 50-85ADC and is rated for 2400Hours. I have run their lamps anywhere within this range and they last typically 2X-4X their rated hours.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 01-20-2001 07:53 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gordon: The ORC XPS20-03 always had a boost problem until a boost kit is installed. When I installed new bulbs, I disabled the boost kit until it was needed again. (by simply unplugged the ice cube relay) Seems to me it was the 1500 hour mark when I had activate the boost kit again. If you try to strike a bulb with about 2000 hours on it without the use of a boost kit in these ORC power supplies, you would have better luck pulling a thorn out of a extemely hungry tiger's paw.

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