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This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: DTS IDEA
James R. Hammonds, Jr
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 931
From: Houston, TX, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 01-17-2001 12:29 PM      Profile for James R. Hammonds, Jr   Email James R. Hammonds, Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Has anybody ever wished DTS would come out with a 5-disk decoder?
I know many theatres have double booked screens every week, and i just thought it would be cool to have 5 trays so you wouldnt have to change the disks in that theatre every day.
How about it DTS?

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 01-17-2001 01:26 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm all for it personally. I also wish that when a drive is ejected that it wouldn't stop playback of dts (assuming you didn't eject the disc that was playing). Then again, I like the old idea that was discussed awhile back here about having an actual hard drive in the players and just "uploading" the contents of the cdrom to the hard drive. A hard drive will last much longer than a cdrom drive and generic $15 IDE cdrom drives could be used. It could also allow for every set of movie discs in the building to be loaded onto the hard drive. (I forget who came up with that idea, was it Scott?)

In a large multiplex where one side is all SRD and the other side is all DTS, we would never run a "double" on the DTS side just because it is one more possibility of something to forget. I'd rather run any doubles in SRD just so there is no chance that somewhere during that week long set that a particular showing wouldn't get played in digital because the projectionist forgot to change the discs or was distracted. It's the only real downfall of the system as it is currently.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 01-17-2001 04:33 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad, I am not expert on computers by any means. Your thoughts have some very good points. However, with all the variables considered in the DTS format, I think there would be some very serious glitches that will cause the system to crash more than it does now.

Some of the high end software and computer packages used in the broadcasting industry still puke! For the price that is paid for these units and software (up to 10 grand or so, maybe even higher), you would think it would play a lousy stereo SND or WAV format without any trouble 100% of the time. But, they don't. It is my understanding that the real "Bottleneck" of an IDE system is the drive itself, whether it be the hard drive or CDROM drive. I would presume this is the reason why DTS uses SCSI CDROM's to eliminate the bottleneck. Like I mentioned, I am no expert on these matters. It is just my humble opinion, which is based on what I have seen in some of the broadcasting on-air computers as well as the home entertainment industry. In today's technology, I think the present system that DTS uses for their time code format is probably the most reliable way to go. Educate me Karen. Educate me, Brad. I am all ears...

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-17-2001 05:23 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My original suggestion was this: keep the DTS hardware pretty much the same as it is now, but add a cheapo IDE hard disk to it. Change the software to allow copying the material on the CDs to the hard disk (maybe copy the soundtracks for the last 4 movies played on that system).

The important thing here is that it shouldn't really change the operator's daily routine, and the disks for the movie being shown "should" still be in the machine. The purpose of having the hard disk is threefold: first, to ensure that the film will play in DTS even if it is (for example) doubled up with another DTS feature and the operator neglects to change the disks; second, to help to increase the lifespan of the CD-ROM drives by reducing the wear and tear on their mechanical components (by playing the sound from the hard disk whenever possible, rather than from the CDs); and, third, to allow for situations where the disks may not be available (for example, interlocking one print in multiple DTS-equipped auditoria or for theatres that may get two prints of one title, but only have one set of disks).

I agree that SCSI is far preferable to IDE, and it's probably not worth moving to IDE for the CD drives. SCSI drives are generally of higher quality, anyway, and can be more easily interchanged than different makes/models of IDE drives. The real bottleneck, though, is the speed at which the CD-ROM drive is capable of reading the data off the disks, and even the cheapeast hard disk has a far higher throughput rate than the fastest CD-ROM drive in general use.

In theory, the software change should be pretty simple, and, even with a good markup for DTS, shouldn't add more than, say, $500 to the cost of the unit.

I agree that complexity tends to decrease reliability, which is why I would not advocate making substantial changes to the existing DTS system. If the new component (the hard disk) fails, then it would just work as it always has. The other nice thing about DTS is that, unlike the radio automation systems, there is always a backup (the optical track on the print) except for 70mm and 16mm, which are usually set up with two DTS units, anyway, so failure of the DTS unit wouldn't be catastrophic.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-17-2001 08:05 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Why not just mount that IDE hard drive in a separate chassis? With an interface card and a firmware update, couldn't this be a way to upgrade just about any existing DTS player to hard drives? (There's still some room inside there and I think there's an acceissible slot .)

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Nic Margherio
Film Handler

Posts: 91
From: St. Louis MO, USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 01-17-2001 10:57 PM      Profile for Nic Margherio   Email Nic Margherio   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
DTS could benefit even further from the hard drive idea by being able to store data that is not commonly available through the CDs, especially for theatre-chain specific snipes that are certainly not available on the DTS trailer disc.

Imagine being able to load a "Feature Presentation" snipe one time and have it play back on your unit every single time. The same could go for trailers that don't make it to the trailer disc. This could seriously diminish "sound on film" argument commonly made against the format.

What does everyone think?

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 01-18-2001 12:43 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
It would save $$$ if dts could just send out one copy of the "trailer disc" every week and just have everyone load it to their hard drive as well.

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Sean Goodrich
Film Handler

Posts: 22
From: Dallas, TX, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 01-18-2001 08:17 AM      Profile for Sean Goodrich   Email Sean Goodrich   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I wonder how good this idea is. I remember one time at my theatre we were doubling a "One Disk Only" movie with a "Two Disk" movie. A projectionist forgot to take out the second disk when he tried to play the "One Disk" movie. The DTS tried to play both disks, and that didn't sound too good.

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Michael Barry
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 584
From: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 01-18-2001 09:22 AM      Profile for Michael Barry   Email Michael Barry   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
On another note, do you think that DTS might start using DVD-ROM drives?

The application that comes to mind is having one disc for each feature instead of two, and using no compression at all.

Not that the current DTS system is lacking - not at all! It sounds incredible, but uncompressed could sound even better...what do you think?


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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 01-18-2001 11:38 AM      Profile for Aaron Sisemore   Email Aaron Sisemore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
>>The DTS tried to play both disks, and that didn't sound too good.<<

DTS, under normal circumstances, will not even play unless the serial number of the print (I assume that is embedded in the time code) and the serial number of the disc match. Unless both of the 'A' discs had some of the same trailers, which would probably cause something funny to occur...

Aaron

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-18-2001 01:03 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ever notice how Karen at DTS doesn't usually chime on on these "new ideas for DTS" discussions? Maybe she's too busy writing them down!

It would be cool to see some of these ideas implemented and to know that they could have originated here on Film-Tech.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-18-2001 01:07 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
It would save $$$ if dts could just send out one copy of the "trailer disc" every week and just have everyone load it to their hard drive as well.

With all the studios now inserting trailers from every OTHER studio in with their prints, I think it's about time that DTS just do away with trailer disks and just put all the current trailers on every movie disk set. Might cost a little more but it would surely be cheaper than pressing the trailer disks, and it would be a solution for those of us with 2-drive DTS units.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 01-18-2001 07:45 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Aaron, you said:

"DTS, under normal circumstances, will not even play unless the serial number of the print (I assume that is embedded in the time code) and the serial number of the disc match. Unless both of the 'A' discs had some of the same trailers, which would probably cause something funny to occur."

Hmmmm. I am not so sure of that. We have had bad disks in the past, and a replacement disk worked just fine.

And, it would be very interesting to see how an IDE hard drive would react when sorting out the codes for a specific movie and play the correct track. Personally, I think go over like a cast iron tennis ball.


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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-18-2001 09:33 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Last year I had an interesting incident with serial numbers
We have a twin DTS with failsafe board for 70mm dts. We were running the Matrix in 35DTS so I had the disks for it in the main player. WE also had a Bollywood Hindi film showing one show a night so I put its disks in the backup player. Worked great until reel 17 of the Bollywood special and this girl is sing (sounded like cats dragged across glass ) And all of a sudden the main player started to play the big machine gun sequence of the matrix. I am convinced that the Indian film had been made using cloned serial numbers (they were CDR disks)

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Karen Hultgren
Master Film Handler

Posts: 492
From: Agoura Hills, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 01-19-2001 06:00 PM      Profile for Karen Hultgren   Author's Homepage   Email Karen Hultgren   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Double features.

All you have to do is change the discs and cycle the power. That's pretty simple. You won't see any more CD-ROM drives added to units. You may, however, see a hard drive in the not too distant future.

Karen at DTS

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