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Author
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Topic: by far the worst print job EVER!
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timothy johnson
Film Handler
Posts: 50
From: minneapolis, mN 55419
Registered: Jul 99
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posted 01-12-2001 12:20 PM
I had a chance last night to see a preview of "13 Days" at a theater here in Minneapolis to check the print for quality before today's opening (Friday) and boy oh boy, I have never seen anything like it, reel four was a disaster! the image faded to black every 1/2 second, along with the optical sound, imagine, fade up, fade out, fade up, fade out, like an epileptic strobe light, it was beyond funny, how can a reel like this be sent out??? it lasted 10 minutes and then, a nasty lab splice and back to normal.. I can understand how other probelm reels leak out, but looking at this on any level could have been seen with the human eye right away, are the labs really under that much stress to get prints out that fast without quality control?
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John Pytlak
Film God
Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 01-12-2001 01:15 PM
Sounds like the unexposed print film had been fogged while in roll form ("convolution repeat"). The fact that it disappeared at a lab splice shows it likely occured before printing or processing, maybe due to a problem with the protective foil bag the raw stock is normally shipped in. If so, it is likely a one-time occurrance, limited to that roll of raw stock. "White light" fog normally produces a dark yellow, brown or black coloration on print film, that may not be uniform across the width of the film. "Safelight fog" is usually cyan or blue in color.Obviously, request a replacement reel. Tell the distributor and exchange about the problem immediately, including the print number. The magenta-colored film code printed along the edge of the print will help track it to the particular batch of film. AFAIK, most of these prints were not printed on Kodak film. ------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
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James R. Hammonds, Jr
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 931
From: Houston, TX, USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 01-13-2001 10:00 PM
Yeah, the print we got had a bad 5th reel.
And it was the exact same problem we had with DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS.
There was a chemical splice that threw the picture out of frame.
When I went after the show to fix the splice, I noticed that yet again there was a Dolby Digital dropout and an SDDS dropout.
Also, just as before, the frames "glided" out of focus.
I couldn't tell where I should cut the film this time (by the way, this was the SECOND time i had tried to fix this splice) and the frame line was never in the right place until the end of the shot.
I hate to admit this, and I really didnt want to have to do it, but it eded up cutting a whole shot (about 2 feet) out of the film.
This time i did tell asked my manager about getting the reel replaced, and he said to go ahead and call.
But since its the weekend and Monday is a holiday, I guess I'll have to wait until Tuesday.
What is the deal with these guys?
Can they not process a print properly?
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John Pytlak
Film God
Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 01-15-2001 05:59 AM
AFAIK, neither "13 Days" nor "Dungeons and Dragons" was printed on Kodak film.A poorly made lab splice can cause the film to mistrack in the printer, causing a jump or misregistration. These ultrasonic splices are made on the unexposed raw stock in very dim darkroom conditions, so problems can sometimes occur. ------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
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James R. Hammonds, Jr
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 931
From: Houston, TX, USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 01-17-2001 12:21 PM
Yeah, i know what your saying, John, about catching this problem during biuld-up.
I think form now on, I'll actually chech for chemical splices during biuld-up, whic is something I never bothered to do, since I wasn't trained that way.But as far as that reel never being shown, I think that's a pretty unrealistic idea.
The replacement reel wouldn't be in until the next day, so it's still possible that you might have to run the print with that reel for at least one show.
In the case of my theatre, if it came in early in the day, we might be able to change it before the first show since nothing starts till 330 when school's in.
But yes, it should be replaced as soon as possible.
And to think that in the past I just fixed the splice and let it go.
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Scott Norwood
Film God
Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 01-17-2001 12:55 PM
I had a second run print of "Hurly Burly" that had the "entire width of the film goes black for a few seconds" problem. I had assuemd that the lab stock had somehow been exposed to light, but the weird thing is that it wasn't near a lab splice at all. Stranger, still, was that this print had made it through whatever first-run house had shown it without having the reel replaced.We didn't get a replacement reel because I didn't find the problem when inspecting the print (my fault) and it wasn't noticed until Friday night. Since we were only showing that film Friday-Saturday-Sunday, we wouldn't have been able to get a replacement reel in time, anyway. I did, however, return the print with a note stating something like "order a replacement reel 5 [or whatever number it was] because it has this problem," which was more than the previous theatre did for me. On the subject--does anyone else leave notes in film cans when there are unusual problems with a print? I always did it, but I never got one from any other theatre, so I assume that no one else (or very few others) bother to do this.
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John Pytlak
Film God
Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 01-17-2001 01:15 PM
Accidental fogging of the unprocessed print film does not usually produce a well defined black area --- typically, fogging is uneven across the width of the film, and it "fades in" and then "fades out". As noted, white light produces a yellow, brown or black density, depending upon the intensity of the light and exposure time. Excessive exposure to the amber LED, Series 8, or low pressure sodium vapor safelights normally used in print film darkrooms usually produces a blue- colored fog density on the print. A red light or red LED would produce cyan fog.------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
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Randy Stankey
Film God
Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 01-17-2001 07:38 PM
I have, on occasion, put notes in film cans. The print of Princess Mononoke that I ran was pretty chopped up and there was another that I can't remember the name of.When I was done with them I put them in bags sealed the reels with lables, made on my computer, and printed up a report of everything I found (or fixed) in the reel. I even put in the URL of Film-Tech, mentioning FilmGuard. I never heard anything from anybody about those prints. I don't know if they were put into storage, trashed, or if they were butchered by the next horse's ass who got the film. I won't stop doing that but I won't be doing that every time, either. Unless it's something "major", it seems like a waste of time and computer ink.
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Randy Stankey
Film God
Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 01-18-2001 05:28 AM
The way you could tell it was "my" print:1) All the splices would be freshly remade. (Accounting for wear and tear of subsequent runs.) 2) All the heads and tails of the print would have been clear leader with the title and reel numbers, etc. written in black Sharpie. -- There were no heads or tails on the print. I had to call Technicolor for the "Breakdown Sheet". 3) The Breakdown sheet would be in the can. (A photocopy in each can.) 4) Reels would have remnants of the seals I put on, with my name, etc. 5) A copy of my "Film Report" was in each can. 6) ... and last, but not least, the print would be FilmGuarded. Anything familiar?
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