Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Vinegar Syndrome and Reels

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Topic: Vinegar Syndrome and Reels

Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-21-2000 07:45 PM

I have just discarded a feature that was very very infested with VS. The 32" aluminum reel that it was on still smells of vinegar, leading me to believe that it is contaminated. I worry that whatever residue is on that reel may harm whatever feature is stored on it in the future. Can someone recommend a solution that I can clean that reel with, which will nullify the potential hazard?

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Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-21-2000 09:41 PM

Just spitballing, here...

In college there used to be Work Study positions as "Lab Assistants" in the chemistry dept. I did a short stint. My main job was washing up all the glassware. (Beakers and test tubes, etc.)

They used a detergent called "Alconox", especially made to remove chemicals. Then we would rinse off the detergent with hot water and then we would rinse with distilled water.

I'm supposing that if that process was good enough to prevent contamination in a chemistry lab then it ought to be good enough for film. Now, where to find a dealer in laboratory supplies?

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Jeff Stricker
Master Film Handler

Posts: 481
From: Calumet, Mi USA
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 12-22-2000 05:37 AM

I would think mixing some baking soda in water and then soaking the reel in the mixture will neutralize any traces of acetic acid which may still be present on the reel.

Then just rinse reel in clean water to remove any remaing baking soda, and dry it thoroughly.

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Dennis Atkinson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 129
From: Birch Run Michigan
Registered: Feb 2000

posted 12-22-2000 08:13 AM

Aluminum reels and film do not mix. It doesn't take too long (less than 1 year)for the leader that contacts the hub to start warping and buckeling. Vinegar syndrome is quickly the next step.

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Stefan Scholz
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 223
From: Schoenberg, Germany
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 12-22-2000 03:26 PM

I had bought a 1958 film, some years ago. 5 reels were shipped on the standard zinc plated reels, one reel came on painted metal shipping reels.
The 5 reels on zinc had heavy VS reaction, the painted reel was still runnable. I asked a friend at time, beeing a chemist. Zinc and aluminum could start decomposition, was the answer. Lesson: Store films on cores in cardboard boxes, as cardboard absorbes acid up to a certain point of saturation. Never leave film on metal reels for extended periods.

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Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-22-2000 05:02 PM

Shhhhhhh
Don't tell my other films that I can't keep them on aluminum. Some of them have been on there for 12-15 years.

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Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut

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Stefan Scholz
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 223
From: Schoenberg, Germany
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 12-23-2000 03:26 PM

Not telling this, but it is one possible cause- metals may act as catalysts. All films we had in Europe were kept on cores in cardboard - and VS was something I learnt about from the US....

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 12-27-2000 02:53 PM

AFAIK, iron can act as a catalyst for "vinegar syndrome". Rusting or corroded metal reels, cans and cases should be discarded. Magnetic striped prints are more prone to vinegar syndrome.

Cool, dry and vented storage are best. Use Molecular Sieves to adsorb acid and moisture if sealed cans/cases are used for storage.

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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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