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Author Topic: 5-Star Bearings
Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-09-2000 04:47 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have 10 Simplex 5-Star soundheads, attached to Simplex PR-1060 projectors. (The ones with the flip-up gates.) All of the main bearings in the soundhead keep going bad. They are in the neighborhood of 5 years old...

It's all three bearings on the sprocket / drive shaft. There are two "donut" bearings and one large "double-size" bearing. The one that is the worst is the large one but the other two go bad as well.
When they do go bad, the projector starts sounding like an old washing machine. I've been told that there was an incident where one froze up mid-show. When you take them out to replace them, they feel like they are full of gravel and often they have leaked black grease all over.

I am told that every projector in the place has had at least one bearing job. There was one incident where the new ones went bad just two weeks after replacement.

I replaced the bearings in one projector this week. I made sure to be as careful as I could:
I carefully knocked the old bearings out with a spark plug socket and a hammer. I made sure they were seated perfectly straight using the same method in reverse...tapping gently and making sure to only apply force to the outer rim only. I cleaned all the parts as thoroughly as I could and made sure there was absolutely no grit or dirt on anything. I deburred any parts that wouldn't fit together with hand pressure, test-fitting everything before final re-assembly. I didn't open the packages to the new beraings until the last second before I needed them to make sure they weren't contaminated by grit. In short I was just about as anal-retentive about it as I could be.

I have about 50 Simplexes in my area and these are the only ones that do that. (Although I must admit half of them are practically new "Milenniums".) I have made similar repairs in other locations but none this severe and none so chronic... There's GOT to be something wrong here.

I suspect it might be just a bad run of bearings but that doesn't explain why it would continue for 5 years unless Strong is having long-term "quality" issues with suppliers. Second I'm trying to rule out poor workmanship on another person's part, as you've read above. What else could it be?

Does anybody else have experience with this phenomenon?

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Brian Potts
Film Handler

Posts: 59
From: Lexington, North Carolina, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 12-09-2000 06:14 PM      Profile for Brian Potts   Email Brian Potts   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It seems to me that the personnel running these machines maybe cleaning them with a degreaser. That is the only thing that seems logical. Has the theatre had the same projectionists? Maybe someone has trained them to spray degreaser directly on the machine instead of spraying it in a rag and wiping the machine down.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-09-2000 07:23 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
To "clean" in there would be a tough task, indeed! You'd have to take the back cover off the sound head and reach in where the drive belts are. The only bearing that would be affected by somebody doing that would be the outermost bearing on the operator's side, where the sound sprocket is. That's the only one that's even partially visible. Even the most bone-headed "popper jockey" wouldn't have the mental ability to do that!

This doesn't rule out something like the projector leaking on the flywheel and slinging oil up inside the soundhead, but I don't think the things leak oil bad enough to do that. If it did, there'd be a nice track of oil gong up the wall and onto the port glass. (This, I have seen! -- But not here.)

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 12-10-2000 12:17 AM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Randy- We had alot of problems with our 5-Star soundheads. Many of the bearings were rusting. The projectors were about 6 years old.

Do you think the bearings are rusty inside?

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-10-2000 12:39 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, some of them were rusted. I think it's a quality problem somewhere down the line. Probably in the plant that makes the bearings.

Still I did my best to make sure that things weren't put toghther all cockeyed so that there wasn't any lateral pressure on the bearing races.

Unless I get any better ideas I'm just going to watch out for the one I replaced this week to see how it behaves. If all goes well I'll just start replacing the bearings in all the others.

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Sean M. Grimes
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 247
From: Lunenburg, MA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 12-10-2000 03:35 AM      Profile for Sean M. Grimes   Author's Homepage   Email Sean M. Grimes   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Randy,

In my thirteen plex with five star soundheads and 1060's eight out of the thirteen smaller (outer) bearings have been replaced. I thought that I was the only one with that problem... out of the four soundheads I have worked with I have the least amount of complaints about the five starsl - but come on now. My booth has been in place now since Nov of 1996 - and in the past four months they have been going bad at least two a month.

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Pat Moore
Master Film Handler

Posts: 363

Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 12-10-2000 06:02 AM      Profile for Pat Moore   Email Pat Moore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi;
The two bearings that mount in the soundhead casting have to be well oiled on installation. I believe they are shielded bearing which idicates they are already grease-packed anyway. If the bearings are installed dry they will rust and go bad.

The larger bearing on the outside is sealed, as I remember, have to check when I get back to the office. This is a very heavy bearing and the only thing that should make that fail is excessive tension. When we "chatted" about that the other night, tension didn't sound like a problem.

The only other thing is that the bracket and/or its mounting bosses are really tweaked. Let the bracket "find" it's location by spinning the shaft before really clamping down on the two screws that secure it. Does the bracket seem square to the rest of the shousing?

With everything mounted up, does the shaft free-wheel easily? A little spin by hand should let it spin for a long time -- a minute sor so, depending on how hard you spin it.

Make sure your crew isn't spraying things down with WD40 or cleaning with 409. That stuff drives the oil out and will cause that. I was once complimenting a theatre on how clean everything was until I saw what they were using...

Pat

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 12-10-2000 12:28 PM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
I had just taken over a theater and I had a rusting problem with some 9-year-old 5-stars, but it was the drum bearings.

After a long, drawn-out process of elimination, I finally discovered a bottle of XeKote in the cabinet with Renovex in it.

After a long, loud "training session" with the booth people, I locked up all of the chemicals.

But the damage was done, and I ended up replacing the drum bearings on all 6 projectors.

I didn't have problems with any other bearings, though.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-10-2000 08:11 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I didn't oil the small bearings. I was under the impression that they were sealed and didn't "want" to be oiled. I will do that next time, though. (There are 9 more to do.)

I also let all the parts find their own "home". All parts were hand fitted before final assembly and then put together loosely before tightening. All the screws were tightented in stages.

Since the shaft is loaded by way of a "wave washer" I found it hard to get the black bracket on without putting lateral force on it. Every time you press on it to get it in position it would want to shoot off to the side. I put the bracket on but left the last big bearing loose. (There is a set screw on the bottom that tightens it in place.) Once I was sure that everyting was centered I pushed the bearing in by hand and tightened the set screw. The last thing was to make the final turns on the screws that hold the bracket. (I left them a couple turns loose, too)

I was able to turn the shaft with just finger pressure but it wouldn't spin for more than a rev. or two. Then again I didn't have the last gear / pulley on yet either. Once it was all back together I put the belts on and tensioned them. The projector would turn over just as easily as any. Just fingers is all it took.

Thanks, Pat for your advice -- Now, as well as last night. The 'net was behaving funny last night and I was slow to reply sometimes. There would be no replies for two minutes then suddenly there were 20 all at once and they all scrolled off the screen.

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Matthew Bailey
Master Film Handler

Posts: 461
From: Port Arthur,TX
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 12-18-2000 02:52 PM      Profile for Matthew Bailey   Email Matthew Bailey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Have you looked in the NTS/NSS 5 star
manuals? The 5 star on my 1014 Simplex
along with the 1014 are about 20 years
old,but no problem whatsoever. I use Otis
elevator door operator oil on only the
soundhead bearings.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 12-18-2000 06:33 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Randy, you might be running the drive belt tension too tight. Check your belt tension. Set it to spec if you can. It is worth looking into.


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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-20-2000 09:55 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There is a "thumb's width" of slack in the one I did. Just as I have always been told. It's the same trick I was told to use when putting on an alternator belt in my car. Push on it and it should give about 1/2 inch, or about the width of an average "guy's" thumb.

Now, I can't speak for the other 9 of them. When I took this first one apart it was okay. (It was done previously by the NCS "guy".)

I'm going to end up replacing them all, eventually. Each trip I make to that theatre, I'll just do one or two more.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 12-20-2000 10:44 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
With a thumb's width, you should be ok. When I set them up, I use a "sloppy" 1/2 of an inch, which will still allow the belt cogs to firmly engage in the pully teeth.


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John Eickhof
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 588
From: Wendell, ID USA
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 12-20-2000 11:50 PM      Profile for John Eickhof   Author's Homepage   Email John Eickhof   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If your soundheads are the later version with the belts that have the rounded teeth, (metric belts) you can leave a considerable amount of slack in the tension as these seem to stay engaged better than the older squre tooth type belts. (gilmer) I recommend about
5/8" slack on the motor belt and 3/8" slack on the projector belt measured at a piont of deflection halfway between pullys.

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