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Author Topic: Which system to choose!?
Andrew McCrea
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 645
From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 12-09-2000 02:33 PM      Profile for Andrew McCrea   Author's Homepage   Email Andrew McCrea   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey,
I was wondering... Our theatre chain has ALWAYS been big fans of Dolby and have always used Dolby, but for our new theatre opening soon, we'd like to try something new... Should we use SDDS, DTS or THX?

HELP!
Thanx!
Andrew McCrea

P.S. The theatre will begin construction soon. The theatre is slated for a July 20, 2001 opening! I heard that THX has to have special auditorium layouts and I hope our blueprint proto-type can be changed for THX certifications if we choose it!


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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-09-2000 02:37 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What theatre chain are you with it says unemployed in you bio under who

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Michael Cunningham
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 186
From: Anchorage, AK
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 12-09-2000 05:15 PM      Profile for Michael Cunningham   Email Michael Cunningham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Um, first off, THX is not a stand-alone sound system. It is a set of requirements your theatre must have to remain THX certified. These requirements include things like : low ambient noise (from AC, heat or venting equpment), sound equipment (amps, speakers, etc.) that has been approved by Lucasfilm, and things like proper speaker and seat placement. THX goes along with the other systems you mentioned. Actually, a mono house could be THX certified for that matter.

As for which Digital system to choose, they each have their good and bad points.

SR-D (Dolby Digital) is placed on about 99.9% of release prints today. In my opinion, it has excellent sound in the lower ranges (bass for explosions and such). Problems with it include tricky alignment (it's printed between the sprocket holes so the little "camera" has to be timed just right), a somewhat high compression rate and the fact that the track is somewhat easily damaged because of its placement on the film.

SDDS (Sony Dynamic Digital Sound) appears on about 98% of realease prints, gives you 8 track capability (Left and Right Extra between the L / R and Center channels) and has the lowest compression rate. It also, in my opinion, has the best channel seperation (you can easily tell where the sound is coming from). Trouble with it is because it is printed on the very edge of the film (both edges) it is easily damaged. When damage occurs to any of the 8 low compression tracks, the system falls back to a back-up track that contains all 8 tracks at extremely high compression (sounds worse than analog!). This will happen even with brand new from the lab prints. Also, SDDS units are notoriously trouble prone and will fail a lot.

DTS (Digital Theatre Systems) has CD Rom discs which contain the sound so film damage will not affect the sound quality. It appears on about 98% of release prints today and uses the same compression ratio as SR-D. It has, in my opinion, the best seperation between screen and surround channels which will really give you that "being in the scene" feeling. Problems with DTS include the fact that the sound doesn't automatically go with the print (you have to remember to move the discs too and some prints will not have the discs returned with them so you must order new) and their older CD Rom drives are notorious for freezing up and not wanting to read properly.

I hope all this info helps. I can't tell you which system to choose because it really depends on your preference and needs. Good luck!!

-Mike

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Richard Hamilton
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1341
From: Evansville, Indiana
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 12-09-2000 07:06 PM      Profile for Richard Hamilton   Email Richard Hamilton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
MONO THX house?

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Michael Cunningham
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 186
From: Anchorage, AK
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 12-09-2000 08:48 PM      Profile for Michael Cunningham   Email Michael Cunningham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well okay, it has never been done in the history of THX, but it theoretically could. I was just attempting to illustrate my point that THX is not a stand alone sound system that should be taken under consideration when deciding which sound system to use. In other words : "Should we use SR-D, SDDS or THX?" is the wrong question. The right question would be "Should we use SR-D or SDDS and should we also seek THX certification?"

-Mike

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-09-2000 09:54 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually, I can imagine someone saying "we have X dollars to spend on this, should we spend it on THX certification or one of the digital sound systems?" Thus, the choice would be a THX-certified Dolby SR house or a non-THX digital house. It's sort of an apples-and-oranges comparison, but if you look at it from a purely financial point of view (if we spend the same amount of money, which will draw in more customers), it almost makes sense.

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Michael Barry
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 584
From: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 12-09-2000 10:54 PM      Profile for Michael Barry   Email Michael Barry   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Michael C - you mentioned that DTS has the same compression ratio as SRD.

I don't believe this to be the case: DTS uses approximately 3:1 compression whereas Dolby Digital is compressed between 10:1 and 12:1.

Could someone verify this?

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 12-09-2000 11:38 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Generally speaking, it could be pretty hard to convert a non-THX house to THX after it's already been built.

For example, THX auditorium are designed to be very quiet. To keep outside noises as low as possible, one thing they will specify is that any AC compressors be mounted over the booth area rather than the auditoriums. The compressors may be mounted using vibration-isolation mounts; the exact type of isolation mount must be calculated by someone, based on the size and weight of the compressor (so you can't just go out and buy any mount.) They also usually specify the the HVAC ducts be internally padded/insulated. They may require that the ducts zig-zag once to reduce patrons hearing the fan noise.

So if a theater hard-mounts AC compressors directly over the auditorium using a very short, uninsulated duct, it could be very expensive to change later.

Go to the Manuals section here, and download the document; "THX Architectural Suggestions" for some idea of what involved.

When our theaters were THX approved 6 years ago, it cost $10,000 per auditorium ($1,000 a year after the first.) That price changes depending on how many auditoriums you want to do at one time, if they are all the same basic, "standard" design, etc.

I think if I were pressed for money, I would buy digital sound equipment and contact a person who has done THX auditoriums before and ask them to help with the design. It might not be perfect, but you would avoid several pitfalls if you do it yourself, and perhaps try for THX at a later date.


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Ian Price
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1714
From: Denver, CO
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-09-2000 11:53 PM      Profile for Ian Price   Email Ian Price   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If I had all the money in the world, I wouldn't put in THX. But I would pay for a kick ass, acoustical consultant.

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Cory Johnson
Film Handler

Posts: 46
From: La Crosse, WI USA
Registered: Aug 1999


 - posted 12-10-2000 12:39 AM      Profile for Cory Johnson   Email Cory Johnson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Compressions:
SRD: 12:1
DTS: 4:1
SDDS: 3:1

Best Tech Support: DTS. No contest.
Most Maitenance Free: DTS from my experiences. SRD is also very good, though.
Easiest format to work with: SRD. Thread it up and your done. Virtually everything is in SRD.
Cheapest as by MSRP: DTS. Followed by SRD and then SDDS.
Best Channel Seperation: DTS followed very closely by SDDS. I find SRD to be "acceptable".
Best sound: DTS then SRD then SDDS in my opinion. SRD ranking that high is quite interesting considering that it has about 3 times the compression as SDDS does.
My suggestion: CP 650 with a DTS 6D deck and an EX decoder. Will give you SRD-EX, SRD, DTS and DTS-ES.



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Ken Layton
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1452
From: Olympia, Wash. USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 12-10-2000 10:00 AM      Profile for Ken Layton   Email Ken Layton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Don't forget those "THX License Fees" that go to old Georgie boy down there in Marin County to help finance his next Star Bores picture.

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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 12-10-2000 10:53 AM      Profile for Aaron Sisemore   Email Aaron Sisemore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
>>Best Tech Support: DTS. No contest.<<

I disagree. While DTS does an excellent job of telephone and Internet tech support(Karen RULES!), I have to say that in my experiences, Dolby has far superior support... As always YMMV...

Aaron

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 12-10-2000 12:24 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
I disagree as well on the support issue. The DTS player I bought brand new for my screening room a few years back had hardly any hours on it when the Toshiba drives started to act up. The techs at DTS knew of the low number of hours on the unit and still would not replace the drives purely on the basis of time, so I was out another several hundred bucks on the Teac upgrade kit when the drives were obviously lemons from the start. If the unit had been in a commercial theater for this duration of time, I could understand this and would not have even asked, but we're talking about (I'm guessing here) perhaps only 50 hours on the unit since it was brand new. That's just pathetic.

I no longer push DTS for my installations anymore because of this incident. Dolby equipment rarely ever gives me any grief and their tech support as well as their products are fantastic.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-11-2000 10:53 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Cory SDDS is far higher than 3:1 it is closer to 30:1
I have never had problems with DTS tech support

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Rory Burke
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 181
From: Burbank, CA, USA
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 12-11-2000 12:12 PM      Profile for Rory Burke   Email Rory Burke   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Baffle walls acoustic treatment, lens calculations, speaker placement formulas are no secret and an auditorium could be designed follwing SMPTE practices to meet/exceed all THX prerequisites (which are SMPTEs anyways).... As far a DTS SRD SDDS...go the financial route....clients cannot hear differences between compression ratios and that is good argument for selecting equipment. Hell doesn't the obvios quiality of PCM music prove that point already.....hell look at mp3's... people love them and they have far to go from being professional quiality.

Rory

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