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Author Topic: What is everyone using for a light meter !
Alan Gouger
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 501
From: Bradenton, FL, USA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 11-26-2000 09:34 PM      Profile for Alan Gouger   Author's Homepage   Email Alan Gouger   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is there anything out there thats cost effective that works without costing $$$$$

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-26-2000 10:47 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Cheapest one I've seen costs about $1,800 to $2,000!

It's been said that you could kludge a regular photographic meter IF it has a narow enough field of view. You'd have to compare it against a "regular" light meter then determine a "fudge" factor. (1) Not very convenient, having to take a reading then multiply or divide by some number all the time. (2) You have to have a "regular" meter to compate with in the first place, meaning you have to either buy one or know someone who would let you borrow theirs. -- Why not just borrow it and use THAT?!

PS: Mr. Pytlak is the expert on this. He wrote an article in Film Notes. Ninety percent of what I know comes from reading that article. I forget what issue it was, but I bet it's on the Manual Downlads page.


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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-27-2000 07:04 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Most analogue meters will work as the mechanical movement of the meter will null the shutter flicker.
Digital ones must have sufficient sampling rates to null out the shutter effect
A spot meter with 1 degree sensing will work is it meets the above requirement
Even though the mechanical ones will average the shutter they must be recalibrated for it
Pentax analogue ones are recalibratable.
The most popular is the Minolta LS100 or the Spectra Cine

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 11-27-2000 08:38 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here are the two recent Cinema Notes articles I wrote about measuring screen luminance:
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/newsletters/notes/march2000/pytlak.shtml
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/newsletters/notes/june2000/pytlak.shtml

The Minolta LS-100 and the SpectraCine CineSpot SC-600 were specifically designed to measure screen luminance. The UltraStereo Labs PSA-200 Projection System Analyzer is really handy, since it looks at the entire screen at once, and allows you to see the effect of any lamphouse alignment changes on uniformity using a laptop computer display.

Using a less expensive spot photometer to measure light is an option, but it needs to be calibrated to read correctly for xenon light, and the 48 interruptions per second of the shutter. Many photographic meters are only accurate to within 1/3 of a stop, which is not enough to tell the difference between 12 and 16 footlamberts, but if properly calibrated, they are better than not measuring at all.

One idea is to purchase a Minolta LS-100, SpectraCine SC-600, USL PSA-200, or similar "real" screen luminance meter, and SHARE it among several theatres in a city. A $3000 meter to properly set up and maintain 50 or 60 screens is certainly a worthwhile investment in quality. With reasonable care, these meters will last for many years.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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Alan Gouger
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 501
From: Bradenton, FL, USA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 11-27-2000 09:10 PM      Profile for Alan Gouger   Author's Homepage   Email Alan Gouger   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks everyone.
John: great articals!

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Bill Purdy
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 139
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 11-28-2000 09:32 AM      Profile for Bill Purdy   Author's Homepage   Email Bill Purdy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If you will go back in the archives to:


Forum/Archive

10-12 footlamberts
Christopher Seo
11-12-1999
and scroll down a ways you will find a chart which you can use to convert the units of measurement found on many spot meters, to Footlamberts. I used to use a Soligor spot meter until I got fancy and bought the Spectra. I found them to be very close. It was just a pain in the posterior to have to take a reading and then go to the chart and then back . . . . . . . . . . . .

------------------
Bill Purdy
Component Engineering

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 11-28-2000 12:09 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks, Bill:

You're correct that having to consult a conversion table between Exposure Value (EV) and footlamberts is a real pain.

Here's your meter's table:

EV 7 = 5.2276 footlamberts
EV 8 = 10.455 footlamberts
EV 9 = 20.91 footlamberts
EV 10 = 41.821 footlamberts

Looking at the conversion table, it's easy to see that these meters have considerable compression of the scale. As I noted, reading most of these photographic spotmeters closer than 1/3 of a stop (EV value) is difficult, and 1/3 of a stop (EV) separates each of these footlambert values:

4
5
6.25
8
10
12.5
16
20
25
32

(Standard SMPTE 196M specifies an aim of 16 footlamberts (55 candelas/square metre), and an allowed range for theatres of 12 to 22 footlamberts).

I agree using ANY properly calibrated spotmeter is better than using NO meter.

As I suggested, perhaps a few theatres in each city could get together to purchase and SHARE a "real" calibrated screen luminance meter that reads directly in footlamberts (or candelas per square metre), and circulate it for a weekly check of screen luminance of all the screens in each theatre. Dare I say COOPERATE with each other to improve quality?

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com


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Rory Burke
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 181
From: Burbank, CA, USA
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 11-28-2000 12:39 PM      Profile for Rory Burke   Email Rory Burke   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
THe Spectra CineSPot is probably the best way to go as far as reliability and accuracy...and cost being the main issue. However the meter must be calibrated or forget accuracy. My problem is I have sent in several CineSpot meters back to Spectra for a pricy calibration and to have them come back all reading different values. I have given up on calibrating with them totally. Is there a another way or another company that can calibrate them? Is using a fancy laptop lightmeter like the Ultra Stereo and then calibrating each one of my Cine Spot meters< it should be only a little trim pot or something to adjust only> a safe route to go? Or do I have to actually risk again the $200 bucks for some kid behind the counter to do a fair and precise job for me?

Rory

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 11-28-2000 01:19 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Rory:

Since SpectraCine is in Burbank CA, where you are located, why not go there in person? You can probably talk to the technician doing the calibration. Show them the discrepancies in person.

FACTORY SERVICE CENTER
SPECTRA CINE RESEARCH, CORPORATION
3605 W. Magnolia Blvd
Burbank, CA 91505

Jose A. Najar- Service Manager
Tel: 818 954 9222
Fax: 818 954 0016
http://www.spectracine.com/repair.htm

Proper calibration does require an optical bench and "standard" light source, or at least a "reference" meter traceable to NIST or ISO standards.


------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com


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Rory Burke
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 181
From: Burbank, CA, USA
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 11-28-2000 05:25 PM      Profile for Rory Burke   Email Rory Burke   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John P.

I have gone that avenue and thus I have given up on Spectra to calibrate my light meters. I have spoken to them personally and they are of no help what so ever. IF you have ever been there in person, the building is located i a small office complex that looks like it should be a dentists office. The front room where you are attended to is so small one client can barely fit inside at a time. The place is very disorganized and the people there are discourteous and rush you while trying to get business and questions answered. I have had nothing but bad luck in the three years dealing with them and am looking for another company or some sort of self-calibrating advice.

Rory

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-28-2000 05:30 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
At one time Photographic analysis (they also distributed spliceing tape) had a light meter calibration service
THe since trim pot is not the only one that needs ajusting THere is also a min and max and curve pot on the amplifier board inside the handle

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Alan Gouger
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 501
From: Bradenton, FL, USA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 11-29-2000 09:43 PM      Profile for Alan Gouger   Author's Homepage   Email Alan Gouger   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Has anyone had any experience with the PSA 200.
Im thinking of buying one!

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 11-30-2000 05:46 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kodak owns several PSA 200 Projection System Analyzers. They are very useful for setting final lamphouse alignment and focus, as they provide a display of screen uniformity measured in the auditorium, but conveniently displayed on a laptop screen that can be positioned in the booth. There is some cabling, boot-up, and set-up time required, so a handheld meter is more convenient for a "quick check" of luminance and uniformity. If you are a service tech who does lots of complete lamphouse alignments, the PSA is very handy. For day-to-day checks in a theatre, a handheld meter will probably find more use.

The USL website has more information, including the SMPTE paper about the PSA presented by Roger Hibbard and Jack Cashin:
http://www.uslinc.com/

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com


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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 11-13-2003 04:55 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bringing up an old topic....

We are looking for a second light meter. The Sekonic L-508 Cine Zoom Master was suggested. I seem to remember reading somewhere that, since it 'sampled' the light at a slower rate than the 48 flashes per second MP projectors operate at, it was not suitable for theater use. But as I check the info at the web site, it says it does have adjustable FPS setting.
here

Pentex Digital Spotmeter was also suggested, but again I don't know if it's suitable.
here

For a 'second' meter, I would be happy with one that was only accurate to +- 1fL. We have a LS100 for critical measurements, or to check cheaper meters.

Any suggestions....?

[ 11-14-2003, 10:57 PM: Message edited by: John Walsh ]

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-13-2003 07:08 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
At CLACO we have USL PSA lightmeter serial number 1. Its been around for quite a while now and we use it constantly. Great for when you're doing lamphouse/reflector upgrades and we even use it for setting up 15kw lamphouses at a 15/70 3D theatre! VERY versatle and without a doubt ULS's best and most useful product. The meter is in Wyoming right now and was just used on a new 8 plex install.
Mark @ CLACO

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