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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » when to change a xenon lamp (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: when to change a xenon lamp
Carl King
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 199
From: Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 11-16-2000 12:23 PM      Profile for Carl King   Email Carl King   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I was curious about how many hours most of the working projectionists get out of a xenon lamp before changing it. In my multiplex I use 4 vertically mounted 1600W and 3 horizontally mounted 2000W lamps. The horizontal lamps get rotated 180 degrees every 250 hrs. Around 3000 hours the light on the screen is noticably less and the lamps get changed. Osram reccommends rotation at half-life I believe. The vertically mounted lamps do not get rotated.

Carl King

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Ian Price
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1714
From: Denver, CO
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-16-2000 12:56 PM      Profile for Ian Price   Email Ian Price   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have two sizes of Xenon lamps.

Christie CXL20 (I think I will get 30% - 50% over guarentee.) Guarentee is about 2,400 hours

Christie CXL30SC (I get about 60% of guarentee before flicker causes me to change the lamp.) Guarentee is 1,440 hours.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 11-16-2000 03:01 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The warranteed hours should be used as a guideline to the expected life. Going much beyond (e.g., 2X) the warranteed life greatly increases the risk of catastrophic lamp explosion, lamphouse damage or personal injury.

Many factors affect lamp life: brand of lamp, lamphouse design, cooling, current ripple, proper lamp rotation, integrity of connections, etc. Change lamps when ignition becomes unreliable, flicker becomes noticable, there is significant lamp blackening, or proper screen luminance and uniformity cannot be maintained (Standard SMPTE 196 has an aim of 16 footlamberts). Inspect the electrodes and seals for signs of excess electrode heating, impending seal failure, or vitrification (crystallization) of the quartz.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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Frank Prete
Film Handler

Posts: 55
From: Victoria, Australia
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 11-16-2000 06:58 PM      Profile for Frank Prete   Email Frank Prete   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If you hear a loud bang from your lamphouse, notice glass all around the base of the lamphouse and the lamp won't strike anymore, then it is probably a good time to change the lamp!

I have seen some lamps get huge hours. I personally changed on that had done ~7500hours. One lamp i know of was installed in 1985 and removed when the theatre renovated late 1996, accumulating some 17,000 hours. On the other hand, I have recently seen lamps fail completly (bang!) after only a few hundred hours.

A good idea is to keep a log of the hours that the lamps in your lamphouses do. If you consistently see that a lamp in cinema 3 (for example) is only doing 1200 hours, and all others are doing 2400 hours, then maybe there is some investigating that needs to be done.

And remember to wear a safety suit of some sort when handling lamps. At bear minimum a face sheild, heavy jacket and heavy gloves should help.

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Rick Long
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 759
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 11-16-2000 09:27 PM      Profile for Rick Long   Email Rick Long   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Frank is right, of course, but I find the heavy gloves a hinderance. Makes it difficult to determine when the cathode clamp screw is tight enough, or about to strip its threads.


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Carl King
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 199
From: Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 11-17-2000 12:56 PM      Profile for Carl King   Email Carl King   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks to all for the advice. Safety is, of course, paramount when handling Xenon lamps. I use a welders thick suede jacket as well as gloves and face shield. The gloves ar awkward so I usually on use one on the hand that is sliding the lamps into position.

Mr. Pytlak, I love the articles you write for Kodak Cinema Notes. I use them for training new operators (as well as educating myself).

Thanks again, everyone

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Mike Spaeth
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1129
From: Marietta, GA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 11-18-2000 04:29 AM      Profile for Mike Spaeth   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Spaeth   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Our policy is, quite simply, warranty + 25%

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 11-18-2000 06:10 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ian,

On your CXL-30SC...what type of rectifier are you using? By any chance is it either an IREM or Kneisley? In any case, please list the model.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Ian Price
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1714
From: Denver, CO
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-18-2000 07:20 PM      Profile for Ian Price   Email Ian Price   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Our CXL30SC is in our large house. It resides in a Strong Super Highlight console. The switcher power supply may be the problem as it has lost some of its high current capacity. ie: It no longer auto-strikes the lamp. We must manualy strike the lamp each time. Also, if the lamp is turned off, it will not fire until 10 minutes have passed. It will not strike while it is hot.

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John Eickhof
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 588
From: Wendell, ID USA
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 11-18-2000 11:13 PM      Profile for John Eickhof   Author's Homepage   Email John Eickhof   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ian, try replacing the filter capacitors in the switcher supply. It sounds like it is not storing a decent charge to ignite the lamp. Also, check the 'boost' voltage circuit, it sounds like the diode is burned open. Good
Luck! John

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 11-20-2000 07:11 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Carl King said: "Mr. Pytlak, I love the articles you write for Kodak Cinema Notes. I use them for training new operators (as well as educating myself)."

Thank you.

I miss my days in the booth, but enjoy Kodak's support in helping theatres "Do Film Right". If I stray from offering practical and realistic advice, or make a misstatement, please let me know. Sometimes the view from "the film factory" may not mesh with what works best in the theatre. I'm willing to listen and learn too.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 11-20-2000 07:51 AM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
>"If I stray from offering practical and realistic advice, or make a misstatement, please let me know. Sometimes the view from "the film factory" may not mesh with what works best in the theatre. I'm willing to listen and learn too."

That one paragraph puts you a cut above your peers, and earns you the respect of all the people in the trenches. I offer a heartfelt "Thank-you, sir."



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Pat Moore
Master Film Handler

Posts: 363

Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 11-21-2000 09:10 AM      Profile for Pat Moore   Email Pat Moore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ian;

I'd be surprised if it's the Switcher that's causing the slow or no strike problem in the Strong system. Is the open circuit voltage getting to 120V or higher? If so, the Switcher is doing its job.

If the lamp does not even get pulsed by the igniter and the open circuit voltage is correct, then it's the circuit that fires the igniter that's at fault.

It sounds like you have the AC Igniter in these systems and the firing board is separate from the igniter itself. Check connections and the firing relay in the socket -- those will corrode over time and might cause the problem you describe.

If it's the DC Igniter, the circuit board in the igniter can pretty easily be replaced or upgraded. There's a Service Bulletin on our website on that:
http://www.strong-cinema.com/SB-0019.pdf

Pat


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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 12-04-2000 07:47 PM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My rule with xenons is to run them as long as you can but to stop when the picture quality goes below what paying customers have a right to expect. Just when that point comes depends on all the factors that John P mentioned earlier. But the important point I'd stress is not to keep on running a dim or flickery lamp in the hope of saving a few quid/bucks, because your customers (if they have any sense) will think "this picture's bad, I'm going somewhere else."

I use 2k horizontal lamps in all 5 projectors here. After a fair bit of trial and error getting the running current, ventilation and rotation intervals right, we seem to be getting 3,000 good hours out of each one. That means anode pitting, envelope blackening and a flicker start to directly affect the picture quality after 3,000 hours.

That's 2x warranty, which is pretty much what I'd expect - I've heard it said that manufacturers generally guarantee something for about half the use they realistically expect it to get - they don't want to be constantly paying out under warranties, so they build in that safeguard.

The way I approach this issue is common sense - don't throw away a lamp which has gone over its warrantied hours but is still giving a perfectly good picture, but don't let things get to the point where presentation quality suffers.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-05-2000 07:56 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My rule of thumb is 20-25% over warranty
The warranty is based on a predicted failure rate of half a production batch.
Each manufacturer has there bell curve looking different of where the mortality peaks. At the end of the lamps life two things that don't effect the direct presentation start to occur physically in the lamp. This is the weekening of the quartz itself due to the exposure to UltraViolet light (devitrification) This increases the risk of catastrophic failure(big bang theory) . The increase in risk is not directly proportional to the number of hours over warranty that you go.
The other area is the seals which are either foil or graded glass. Over time these also weaken. Refunding a complete friday night preformance is usually more expensive (not counting customer bad feelings) than the small cost of the lamp hours.
If a lamp is actually thrown out at the warranty point most still cost less to run per show than half of one patrons admission


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