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Author Topic: "The Wrong Size Film"
Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-05-2000 05:45 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I clipped this from the Roger Ebert "movie answer man" website. Good for a laff!

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Q. Recently, I saw "The Patriot" at Chicago's Water Tower Theater. When the film began, the audience noticed that the picture was off the screen. It extended about 1 foot off the top and bottom and approximately 3 feet off of each side onto the curtains and the walls. I mentioned this to the manager at the start of the film, hoping to have it corrected. I was told by her, "We know. The film they sent us was too large for our screen. There is nothing that can be done about it." I mentioned that I have been in theaters with much smaller screens than this one and not had a problem. I also noted that we shouldn't be expected to pay $8.50 for a movie when we are being denied a portion of the picture. She just shrugged it off.
---Jason Steele, Chicago

A. A movie can be configured to show on any size screen. All it takes is a projectionist who knows what he's doing. The movie does not have a "size," but a format, and the projector must be adjusted to frame the film in that format. "The Patriot" was filmed in the ratio of 2.35 to 1, true wide screen, but movies in that format have been shown in every theater countless times.

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 10-05-2000 06:11 PM      Profile for John Wilson   Email John Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
(thinking) 'Mental note: when in Chicago, go to Water Tower Theater and smack so-called projectionist in the head for single handedly bringing our area into disrepute'.

I wonder if they got a nice call from old Roger?

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Tom Kroening
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 214
From: Janesville, WI USA
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 10-05-2000 06:31 PM      Profile for Tom Kroening   Email Tom Kroening   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hmmm, at first it sounded like he had the wrong plate in... but im not so sure. I worked in a theatre that had a really small "bitch" adutorium. It just so happens that the plate was cut and the lense chosen so that a scope movie fit the screen that was perfectly sized for a flat movie. Normally you'd have top and bottom masking for this, but the scope picture filled the entire screen. It spilled over on the edges and usually cut credits off. I never understood the reason for this or why they even put scope films in that auditorium in the first place.... Go figure.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-05-2000 10:06 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually for the posh place that Water Tower Center is the theaters are about the worst in all of Chicago. Try McClurg Court if you want to step up a notch or two. All in all Chicago is so far behind L.A. and New York in quality movie theaters that it is almost pathetic.
Mark
P.S. I grew up there. Years ago there used to be good theaters there......


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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-06-2000 01:35 AM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think maybe he had a small (cropped) screen, and NO aperture plate in. But then the moviegoer didn't say anything about "that squiggley line on the left wall of the auditorium," so who knows.

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Thomas Hauerslev
Master Film Handler

Posts: 451
From: Copenhagen, Denmark
Registered: Aug 2000


 - posted 10-06-2000 02:02 AM      Profile for Thomas Hauerslev   Author's Homepage   Email Thomas Hauerslev   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This is simply hilarious.

"We know. The film they sent us was too large for our screen."

It's taken right out of Terry Gilliam's splendid "Brazil".

More jokes like that please.

The best from Copenhagen (It's in Denmark!)

Thomas


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Paul Cunningham
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 146
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 10-06-2000 07:34 AM      Profile for Paul Cunningham   Email Paul Cunningham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
He couldn't possibly have had a lens from a different sized auditorium in the machine for some reason. Maybe they'd dropped one or something. This would account for no sound track being visible.

Just a thought.

Good night all

Paul

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 10-06-2000 07:39 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Shouldn't this thread be moved to "Can't we just kill all the stupid people?"

I knew Kodak should have thrown out that batch of 42 mm print film!

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com


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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-07-2000 06:05 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually John they did slit 34mm film
In the 50's Great Brittain had a very large tax on american feature films on 35mm.

To get around the tax Micheal TOdd had one film printed on 34mm stock to get arround the rules and provided replacement trap guides etc.
The things you have to go to to avoid the tax man

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Bruce McGee
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1776
From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular.
Registered: Aug 1999


 - posted 10-07-2000 06:11 PM      Profile for Bruce McGee   Email Bruce McGee   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I sure would like to have someone like Mike Todd in the industry today.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-07-2000 06:16 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have seen a few auditoriums that go 1/2 and 1/2 on FLAT and SCOPE.

The screen is a little bit wider than the regular FLAT screen and a little bit taller than the regular SCOPE screen. It's SUPPOSED to save you from having to have movable masking. (Read: CHEAP!) I think it sucks. You have to crop part of the image for BOTH formats and I think it's a STUPID sacrifice to save a couple of bucks!

Seems to me that they may be going "halvsies" here. Like was said before, I think they put in the wrong plate/lens combination and didn't know it.

Yes, I also vote for nomination to the STUPID PEOPLE HALL OF FAME!

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Dave Bird
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 777
From: Perth, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 10-07-2000 08:07 PM      Profile for Dave Bird   Author's Homepage   Email Dave Bird   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This sounds like what many drive-in's seem to have evolved to: the 2:1 ratio screen, where scope pictures emigrate to the trees at the side, and flat cropped top and bottom. What would be more ethical? A scope screen that maintains same height for flat (and doesn't use sides). Anyone ever hear of adjustable masking OUTDOORS?

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Evans A Criswell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1579
From: Huntsville, AL, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 10-07-2000 09:15 PM      Profile for Evans A Criswell   Author's Homepage   Email Evans A Criswell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
On the half and half flat and scope issue: A theatre we had that closed last May had 7 of its screens 2.00:1 and only one that was adjustable for flat and scope. It was built by Cobb and was the most horribly built theatre I'd encountered. It was an A&P grocery store before it was a theatre. Cobb is also the company that put 1.85:1 screens with no adjustable masking in two thirds of their auditoriums at Madison Square 12 and Hollywood 18 here in Huntsville, AL so that flat can be shown properly, but scope loses nearly one fourth on the sides. I hate this and Regal has not seen fit to fix this since they took the theatres over on August 1, 1997. Me and some of my friends refer to this problems as "Cobb Syndrome".


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Stefan Scholz
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 223
From: Schoenberg, Germany
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 10-08-2000 03:46 AM      Profile for Stefan Scholz   Author's Homepage   Email Stefan Scholz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have recently been to a newly opened 9 plex. UCI had the contract, but was willing to pay the fine for not taking the finished site, and even liked to pay for rebuilding to more mall parking spaces.
Another cheap theatre operator to the finished site. First comments were awful. Soda without carbon dioxide and syrup (no taste at all), popcorn that tasted like it was several days old, and Nachos without any taste, the cheese sauce simply awful...
THAT'S an art to sell this! Your first impression is normally based on corn and soda.
We were expecting the worst for the halls, and were right.
The auditoriums just had one large picture size, 1.77:1, (probably 16:9?-to make you feel home). Every film was cropped to match theese screens.
Sound was simply awful, harsh and without bass or treble, not even SR sounded good.
We were not allowed to enter the booth, "for safety reasons"....
Equipment seemed to be Christy and KCS speakers, more we could not see.


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Stefan Scholz
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 223
From: Schoenberg, Germany
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 10-08-2000 04:02 AM      Profile for Stefan Scholz   Author's Homepage   Email Stefan Scholz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Mike Todd Gordon refers to was Mike Todd's "Around the world in 80 days". This film had it's first run -not only in Britain- in Europe in 30 fps 34 mm format, full frame format without soundtrack. The sound came from a seperate "Cinestage" mag dubber, which was rented at approx $1000 per month to the theatres.
The sound format was 8 channels, with 5 front channels and a split surround (L/R/Top).
You needed to have Todd-AO projectors (DP 70) to run the 30 fps, as trhis was the only brand available at the time (1958). Todd supplied the special masks for the projector, but with DP 70 no other change was neccessairy.
I do still have the original correspondence and invoices from 1958, found at my Savoy ToDD AO theatre's storage area.
Basicly the taxes on any film wider than 35 mm, and not beeing printed in Britain (or Germany) were prohibitively high.
In 1958 London's printing labs did not offer 70 mm printing or reduction printing, therefore the "Cinestage" trick had to be done, as then the film could be called "narrow gauge" with narrow duties.

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