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Author Topic: Aperture Plate Question
Alan Sakaida
Film Handler

Posts: 5
From: Honolulu, HI, USA
Registered: Aug 2000


 - posted 09-15-2000 05:02 PM      Profile for Alan Sakaida   Email Alan Sakaida   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm interested in finding out why aperture plates, once cut correctly, can develop slight shadows. The bulb and lens is properly focused. The shadows are random and do not follow a pattern like lamphouse/projector settling or masking changes. One theory is that the metal expands and shrinks with the heat causing imperfection over time. Any other theories or facts?

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Pat Moore
Master Film Handler

Posts: 363

Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 09-15-2000 06:55 PM      Profile for Pat Moore   Email Pat Moore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Are the shadows on the picture edges? Are they both sides or both the top and bottom at the same time? If it's just one side and not both, and not all the time I'd say it's something to do with aperture location, possibly the turret. Need a couple more details -- for instance, are these turret machines with auto aperture changers?

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Mark Huff
Film Handler

Posts: 69
From: Springfield, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 09-15-2000 08:53 PM      Profile for Mark Huff   Email Mark Huff   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Something to also remember is when your plate is cut the bulb is usually the first bulb ever in the lamphouse. The plat is cut according to the bulbs seated position. It is virtually impossible to place the bulb at the exact same position. With this then your shadows start. Also you are correct when you say the expansion and contraction from heat. Unless you have a Christie Reference console you probably will never get the bulb back to the same point again. Even with the Reference console I doubt it is perfect. Plates sometimes need to be recut over a period of time. Sometime you can adjust turrets and sometimes not. Hope this gives you a little more info

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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 09-15-2000 09:42 PM      Profile for Aaron Sisemore   Email Aaron Sisemore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If it has been a while since the plates have been cut and the picture appears to have 'shrunk' over time, pull the plate and using a knife or other sharp blade, scrape the edges of the plate carefully, avoiding nicking or removing any metal from the plate. you will notice quite a bit of crud coming off the plate and when replaced the picture will be back to original specs!

Aaron


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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 09-15-2000 10:41 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm sure that the openings in aperture plates shrink slightly over time, especially if they were filed with a "knife edge" which is usually the preferred method. The thin edge seems susceptible to heat cycles.

About 6 months after a theater opens, I notice a slight shadow on the top of the screen because (I think) the projector has settled. With the weight (the projection head) in the front, it pulls the front down.

And, (as others have noted) changing or adjusting the xenon bulb puts it in a slightly different position, whih can also cause a shadow.

Masking motor limit switches and rigging shift a little, too.

I always left about 1 foot around the masking (depending on the screen size.) Some people would think that's a bit too much, but I never had to go back and refile. Even with that, I was able to keep cropping equal to or less than 2%.

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Sean McKinnon
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1712
From: Peabody Massachusetts
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 09-15-2000 11:09 PM      Profile for Sean McKinnon   Author's Homepage   Email Sean McKinnon   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You might also want to think about your screens if your screens are pretty old they may settle a bit causing the screen to be different from the cut aperture if nothing else works you may want to see if having your screens re-hung is a possibility

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 09-16-2000 01:14 AM      Profile for John Wilson   Email John Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I wouldn't be worrying about the screens too much... stick with the plates and clean out the opening. Your problem is most likely there.

That screen post reminded me of the time I came on shift to find the lateral guide screw on the century had worked its way loose and the film was moving horizontally a bit on screen. On the way up the stairs an usher stopped me and said we had a problem with the screen because the picture kept shaking...

I just looked at him in amazement.


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Neil Di Scala
Film Handler

Posts: 17
From: Santa Cruz, CA, USA
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 09-16-2000 01:36 AM      Profile for Neil Di Scala   Email Neil Di Scala   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
These are all excellent comments, reflecting experience uncommon in the industry. A couple of other factors include the condition of the bulb and reflector then and now (an older bulb and/or overheated reflector will throw a somewhat less focused beam, causing a bigger shadow).

This entire topic of the optics is seriously under appreciated and a major flaw in the installation and maintenance in a lot of plexes.

I have been doing some portable setups for animation and film festivals (lots of Spike & Mike) for a number of years, using 6 lamphouses with two projectors. The subtle changes in the optics mentioned above, with the repetition of sometimes once a week, make it apparent that a lot of new equipment installers don't really understand this part very well.

I have seen a lot of new installation alignments that were close, but the benefits gained by centering the reflector on the arc and directly through the center of the aperture, through the center of the lens, and the center of the screen are substantial.

In addition to the obvious benefits (more light at less amps) the depth of field of focus can be very different depending on the care of the installer.

This is a very interesting subject, one in which there is a lot to learn.

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Alan Sakaida
Film Handler

Posts: 5
From: Honolulu, HI, USA
Registered: Aug 2000


 - posted 09-16-2000 01:55 AM      Profile for Alan Sakaida   Email Alan Sakaida   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Great replies, thanks! Pat, these are all non-turret projectors and the shadows are usually random. Most times it does seem to be a type of oxidation build up. I did overlook the fact of bulb replacement positioning. Thanks again.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 09-16-2000 04:45 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
If the shadow is on one or two edges, I would strongly recommend you tweek the lens alignment. I always make it a point to cut plates for non-turret projectors with the flat lens set-ring in the same position as the scope with specific instructions to install the same way regardless of lens. Technically you wouldn't think this to be necessary, but it is. Rarely have I found a lens is mounted absolutely perfectly in the carrier. Rotating the flat lens almost always brings about and changes the aperture shadows. Also, the amount of torque applied when tightening the carrier in the projector will affect the lens positioning. What brand of xenon are you using currently? Is this the same brand of xenon the theater was using when the aperures were cut? I've noticed that using a different manufacturer's xenons from the original brand to be another cause of aperture shadows. Finally, I am a firm believer that all xenons should be refocused once a month to maximise light output. This greatly helps to control the shadow problem as well.

In other words, your apertures are "probably" fine, although I do agree that over a significant amount of time, the heat from the lamp will affect the aperture to some degree. Try everything else you can before you go cutting.


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Pat Moore
Master Film Handler

Posts: 363

Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 09-16-2000 07:50 AM      Profile for Pat Moore   Email Pat Moore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Alan; since these are single lens projectors, good chance the apertures just aren't getting back to the exact same place each time you insert them. Are they tight when you slide them into the trap? Are they loose, and can you adjust shadows on screen by moving the aperture around in the trap?

Could also be the lens holders and adapters as well. Most adapters have some play in them as they fit in the 4-inch holder and just don't quite register in exactly the same place each time. Clampng the lens in the holder a little more or less tightly can make a difference on screen, depending on the projector and the fit of the parts.

I've found it's best, for instance, to give the lens a little "twist" in one direction as you tighten the holder, that usually gets things lined up in the same place. If the initial alignments of the system are setup the same that usually works fairly well.

Don't forget that just the slightest change in alignment at the projector can make a significant change in the image location on screen. Depending on the throw and lens focal length, change in the projection angle of less than one degree can translate into several inches or more of change at the screen.

Other suggestions above are good as well -- masking stops can drift, masking edges sag, etc. I think the more random things are probably projector-based, though, or there are real problems with the masking motors.

I will say this: re-file apertures only after you know the problem lies there.

Be sure to check film ratios and masking stops using RP40 test film before doing any filing. The aperture opening may require a little buffing now and again to get rid of burnt-on film and oil goo, but if the system was installed correctly by a good tech re-filing an aperture should be among the last things you need to do.

Good luck!


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Richard Hamilton
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1341
From: Evansville, Indiana
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 09-17-2000 05:44 PM      Profile for Richard Hamilton   Email Richard Hamilton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You NEED to run a loop of RP-40. I would bet that the lens isn't aligned correctly. Assuming that the theatre was set up correctly, if the image is centered, then the problem probably lies in the masking. If there has been any humidity in the auditorium, then the masking material has probably shrunk. This is why you NEED to use RP-40. If you just re-cut the plate to fit the screen, then you might end up overcutting the plate.

I'm not questioning your knowledge, but since you don't have turrets, is it possible that someone has switched plates and/or lenses? I have never seen an aperature plate "shrink"

Rick

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 09-17-2000 06:58 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
While I'm thinking about it, beware of lateral guide rollers that have drifted ever so slightly. Christie makes an awful nice tool to align these on the P35GP.

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Richard Hamilton
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1341
From: Evansville, Indiana
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 09-17-2000 10:18 PM      Profile for Richard Hamilton   Email Richard Hamilton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Would lateral guides create an aperature plate shadow

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 09-18-2000 06:25 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Technically no, but yes too. I've seen many theaters complain of "aperture shadows" when the lateral guide rollers had just drifted barely enough to display the edge of the frame against the masking. While generally this is a sharp edge, the projected left side is commonly fuzzy. Many people have mistaken this for an aperture shadow.

I'm just trying to think of any possibilities for the guy.

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