Film-Tech Cinema Systems
Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE


  
my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Non Syncs on CP500 - 2

   
Author Topic: Non Syncs on CP500 - 2
Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 08-20-2000 02:39 PM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello everyone,
I've set a custom format on my CP500 to play music with surround extension and with Subwoofer between shows.
What is the difference from setting "Non Sync" or "Lt/Rt direct" in the menus?

I notice that if set to "Pro Logic" a non Dolby encoded CD is badly reproduced.
If I set on "Lt/Rt direct" I notice that front music is played from left and right channels with surround extension.
If set to "Non-Sync" surrounds stay mute.

Why this? How the processor manage the signal in "non sync" and how in "lt-rt direct"?

Bye,

Antonio (sorry foe syntax!)

 |  IP: Logged

Ari Nordström
Master Film Handler

Posts: 283
From: Göteborg, Sweden
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 08-20-2000 02:52 PM      Profile for Ari Nordström   Email Ari Nordström   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Doesn't the CP500 just copy the left channel to the left surround and the right channel to the right surround in that mode?

Darn, I'll have to check this. You'll have to wait until Tuesday night if nobody else knows this...

But in ordinary non-sync mode, with no prologic set, the processor simply reproduces the two-channel stereo on the CD. With the sub, of course, if you have it enabled.

 |  IP: Logged

Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 08-20-2000 03:50 PM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No, CP500 can just play left and right channels in right and left surround but it can't play both front and rear with the same channels (front leaft and right).
If you put surround channels on front channels the results is not good.

Antonio

 |  IP: Logged

Rory Burke
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 181
From: Burbank, CA, USA
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 08-21-2000 12:11 PM      Profile for Rory Burke   Email Rory Burke   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Check your X-point settings???

 |  IP: Logged

Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 08-21-2000 12:38 PM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Perhaps I was not very clear (my english is not very good!).
These are the two situation (both with all channels enabled in X-point)

1. Input set as "Non Sync". The right and left channels of CD are played by front left and front right channels; no surround.
2. Input set as "Lt/Rt Direct". Front left, right AND surrounds channels play the music. Center channel stay mute
3. Input set as "Pro Logic". It depends from CD to CD but usually 90% of music come out from Center channel and surrounds. Left and right channels stay very low.

Question: what is the difference from "Non Sync" and "Lt/Rt Direct"?

Bye!

 |  IP: Logged

John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 08-21-2000 03:20 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Lt/Rt Direct

Lt/Rt means Left Total, Right Total. It's the final film soundtrack with the Dolby NR and matrix (for optical sound) applied.

If you were running a show with interlock dubbers (for unmarried prints) you would want to feed the signal from the dubbers rather then the film's soundtrack (since it has not been added yet.) Those connections allow this.

Note though, the reels of "sound-only" that are run with a dubber can be of several different "flavors" not just Lt/Rt.

 |  IP: Logged

Ken Jacquart
Film Handler

Posts: 82
From: San Francisco, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 08-22-2000 09:36 PM      Profile for Ken Jacquart   Author's Homepage   Email Ken Jacquart   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Antonio, the standard non-sync format is this... left input is directed to left output, right input is directed to right output, left and right inputs are also passed throught the ProLogic decoder with only the surround channel being utilized. So basically you get left, right and surrounds. Of course the surrounds you may or may not get will depend on the program material being fed to the ProLogic decoder...

ken

 |  IP: Logged

Russ Kress
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 202
From: Charleston, WV, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 08-22-2000 11:59 PM      Profile for Russ Kress   Author's Homepage   Email Russ Kress   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just do this...

Yes, enable the Pro-Logic on your non-sync.

The surrounds will "de-code" just like in the "non-sync" format.

Depending on the program material, left and right channels may or may not play. If you are using modern music material for intermission music, chances are that they will.

Two added bonuses are that the center channel really firms up the vocals on the material and the sub-woofers are enabled and will play.

While the accuracy of the playback may or may not be perfect as far as the recording studio intended, the over all dynamics of the sound are impressive.

Somebody shoot me here if I'm wrong here, but most modern music is recorded with a video in mind.

Since most home systems now have surround sound, and most of these systems incorporate Dolby Pro-Logic, it stands to reason that CDs will have encoding present.

Even where encoding is not present, the Pro-Logic tends to add artifacts that make folks go "Ooooooh!" and "Ahhhhhhh!"

When this happens, you still have an impressive demonstration of the sound system's dynamic capability. Just one more instance where customers realise that they are listening to something that they can't get at home.

Don't get me wrong here, the cinema (film) play-back should be exactly what the director intended! But the intermission music?...

I recently over heard a conversation by a friend's daughter regarding a "Dixie Chicks" song. She was telling her friend that she just "HAD" to hear it at the theatre.

We (as an industry) strive to be accurate in all aspects of presentation! In the film formats, we should.

I don't think it is a big sin if we dress up the intermission music a bit.

Modern cinema auditoriums possess the power capabilities of entire rock concerts from previous eras! (for the same sized room)

It used to take multiple semi-trailers full of tube amps to equal what a single rack can do today. (Speakers are another rant)

To quote the late Chris Farley.........

"Let the boy use the subs!!!"

The alternative might just be "living in a van, down by the river!!"

Hey!! If Carmike and Regal had discovered this sooner................... *grin*

While the director has control of every aspect of film sound, he never asked to pick or choose what we use to keep our sound systems busy between shows! It's the same EQ! Just let all channels play!

I kinda like listening while I pick up trash.

Russ

 |  IP: Logged

Ari Nordström
Master Film Handler

Posts: 283
From: Göteborg, Sweden
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 08-23-2000 01:24 AM      Profile for Ari Nordström   Email Ari Nordström   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Russ, plugging in the ProLogic thingie is not always a good idea. For one thing, not all CDs are suitable for the treatment. They end up sounding strange, to say the least.

Also, the idea does not work for cinemas that have a curtain. The sound quality then differs radically between the screen channels and the surrounds, hardly the desired effect when "dressing up the music" a bit.

 |  IP: Logged

Dave Cutler
Master Film Handler

Posts: 277
From: Centennial, CO
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 08-23-2000 10:29 AM      Profile for Dave Cutler   Email Dave Cutler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have to agree with Ari, don't use a prologic on intermission music. I do suggest using the surrounds though (by downmixing the fronts into them). I don't think even todays CD's are released with Dolby encoding. A few are but the majority aren't I believe.

I listen to most of my music in my car so I don't have a pro-logic circuit. When I am at home I don't use a pro-logic circuit for my CD player. There is (of course) much better front channel seperation so I think it sounds better.


 |  IP: Logged

Russ Kress
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 202
From: Charleston, WV, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 08-24-2000 12:28 AM      Profile for Russ Kress   Author's Homepage   Email Russ Kress   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As far as surround decoding goes, the "non-sync" and "Pro Logic" selections do the exact same thing when they route information to the surrounds.

"Pro Logic" was the only format I could see that would turn the sub output "on" in the non-sync mode.

So far, I haven't heard anything offensive in my applications.

Is there a way to enable the subs while staying in the LT/RT decoding scheme?

Russ



 |  IP: Logged

Ari Nordström
Master Film Handler

Posts: 283
From: Göteborg, Sweden
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 08-24-2000 04:41 PM      Profile for Ari Nordström   Email Ari Nordström   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, you can enable the sub without having to use ProLogic. I did it for our CP500. Unfortunately, I'm not sitting next to the CP500 so I can't tell you exactly how to do it. What I do remember is that the feature was well hidden. ¨

Ken? Brad? Anyone? I'll check this tomorrow and get back to you if nobody answers before that.

 |  IP: Logged

Ken Jacquart
Film Handler

Posts: 82
From: San Francisco, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 08-24-2000 05:01 PM      Profile for Ken Jacquart   Author's Homepage   Email Ken Jacquart   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
yup, to create a non-sync format with subwoofer enabled, do the following...

press: menu / system setup / format configuration / 'build custom format' and select a User format number.

press: 'copy from existing format' and dial up format 60.

press: 'more' (lower right SK8)
press: 'opt-decode config'
press: 'bass extension' and dial up 'L/C/R to Sw'
press: 'back' (lower right SK8)
press: 'save new format'

When you are through, get to the 'build format selector' screen and choose 'assign formats' and follow instructions... put your user format on the button that you want.

ken

 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central (GMT -6:00)  
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2020 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.