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Author Topic: the loss of old films
Daryl Lund
Film Handler

Posts: 88
From: Chehalis,WA, USA
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 07-31-2000 11:29 PM      Profile for Daryl Lund   Email Daryl Lund   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad I read about a lot of prints that are being lost. Could the great people that follow film tech do somthing to help save these great national tresures ? I would give yearly dues to belong to the cause and give more as I had it. As long most of the money would go to film presurvation.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-31-2000 11:49 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Other than private film collectors, I don't know of much that can be done. If the studios weren't so worried that someone might take a 35mm print and run an unauthorized midnight screening and pocket the profits (not giving them their share), it wouldn't be a big deal at all. It's certainly not a bootlegging issue, as by the time prints go to the junkyard, the movie is typically already on video. Instead, greed prevails for that $100 or so that might be missed by a few dishonest theater owners and all but a couple of prints are trashed. Add to the fact that TES isn't smart enough to keep prints in mint condition to start with for future repertory use, and in the end all that is left are a couple of horribly beat up copies of a given film in the depot. At that point, EVERYTHING relies on hoping nothing ever happens to that original negative. If something does happen, it's completely up to hoping a private collector has a good print to become the "new negative".

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 08-01-2000 07:50 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Fortunately, the studios have come to realize the value of their motion-picture vaults, since the "after-market" of home video greatly exceeds the first run feature release. Most studios now have well organized film preservation and storage programs.

For example, Richard May, VP of Film Preservation at Warner Bros. says:

"I'm responsible for preserving more than 6,000 feature films and several thousand short subjects--all from our catolog. We assign specialists to restore and recopy movies that have deteriorated through usage, particularly those from the '50s and '60s when dyes and film stocks were unstable. Generally, the more successful a picture, the worse shape it's in. We also restore scenes that initially were censored, as we're doing now on The Devils, a '70s British film directed by Ken Russell, starring Oliver Reed and Vanessa Redgrave. Of all the projects I've worked on during 10 years in film preservation, the most satisfying was Singin' in the Rain. The original negative was destroyed in a 1978 fire and the intermediate negative recently wore out, so the lab had only the surviving duplicate positives. After the first tests misfired, we were kept in suspense while they experimented with different stock and color correction levels. Finally we said, 'We've got it. It works!' A few days later some of those clips were shown at a Motion Picture Academy tribute to Stanley Donen, the film's director. They looked absolutely gorgeous." (twx magazine 9/99)

On-line information includes:
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/technical/care.shtml
http://www.afionline.org/preservation/about/links.html
http://www.amianet.org/
http://www.eastman.org/10_colmp/10_index.html

Unfortunately, maintaining high quality release prints for theatrical re-release has sometimes not had the same priority by the distributors, and available prints are often worn or damaged, and improperly stored (which accelerates fading, especially if made before Kodak introduced "low fade" print film in 1982). High quality new prints can be made, but the cost needs to be justified by the potential revenue from theatres.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com


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Paul Cunningham
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 146
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 08-01-2000 09:04 AM      Profile for Paul Cunningham   Email Paul Cunningham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just about every Australian movie that is made has support or funding from the Australian Film Finance Commission. Since the early 1990's (I think) it has been a contractual obligation that to receive funding for a film one print must be given to the National film archive. This is one way that the government is trying to preserve our film history.

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 08-04-2000 03:30 AM      Profile for John Wilson   Email John Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
From 1990? That's a comfort then. I wanted to run the original Crocodile Dundee at my outdoor last season for Australia Day. Do you think I could find a print? I tried everywhere...the old distributor, Channel Nine, Peter Faiman's office, the archive...no-one had it. (This is THE most successful film Australia has ever seen, or was until that boat film turned up). No prints.

I finally got on to John Cornell's pub in Byron Bay. They found one in an office archive in Sydney. The good news was that when I got to run it it was a brand new 35mm print...the bad news was that it was the American version. There are NO Australian versions of this film in Australia any longer.

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The Olympics are coming...RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!

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Paul Cunningham
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 146
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 08-04-2000 07:27 AM      Profile for Paul Cunningham   Email Paul Cunningham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi John,
I'm pretty sure I read it in Movie Trader a while back, I'll check the year it started when at work tomorrow. How did Crocodile Dundee go? Good response?

I'll be at the Olympics so may drop in and see your bio box if thats OK.

Paul

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Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

Posts: 5246
From: Northampton, PA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 08-04-2000 10:29 AM      Profile for Tim Reed   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John, what was different about your domestic version?

Re: film preservation. I'm considering digitally restoring some of my classic drive-in intermission clocks, and offering pristine, 35mm Dolby SR prints for sale (note there is another fellow that's attempting a similar project, but he's just making prints of prints and is uninterested in restoring or improving them). I'm talking a computerized-visual-effects-style restoration, as appears to be the latest 35mm technology; complete color correction, jitter and scratch removal, even title and text changes to reflect current drive-in theatre requirements... anything's possible once it's scanned into the digital domain.

The only fly in the ointment is this: the prices to have my film scanned, and then have the resulting file (after editing and computer manipulation) output back to 35mm, is EXHORBITANT!!!! I mean, take the highest price you can ever imagine, and then TRIPLE it... HIIIIIIIIIIIIIGH! That's Hollywood for you ($80 for a camera adapter screw... come on!)

I have an investor interested in financing such an endeavor, but the lab scanning prices are beyond anyone's reach and, quite frankly, it wouldn't make the project feasible. The best I could hope for is a sale of maybe 50 prints, and having a brand new restored negative for posterity.

Therefore, I'm seriously considering building my own scanner and maybe a recorder (although I can get this done commercially much more cost-effectively than the scanning).

I'm looking at adapting a regular slide or 35mm negative still scanner to a pin-registered intermittent movement, and slap some reel arms on it, so I can get my film frames into the computer. The scanning resolutions available on some of these still scanners are identical to the motion picture units they charge $10,000's to use.

Anyone have any experience with these things, or know about the scanning technology, or where I could learn about it?

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Better Projection Pays!


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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 08-05-2000 01:46 AM      Profile for John Wilson   Email John Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The night went off OK. It still seems to get a laugh after all these years.

Tim, the differences were: we didn't have the word 'Crocodile' in inverted commas...we knew he wasn't REALLY a crocodile. Honestly, this was a condition of Paramount to gain worldwide distribution rights. Also, the Australian section was about five minutes longer. There were several other subtle changes like at the party, in the Aussie version, Sue introduces Mick to a Senator Bradley. In the rest-of-the-world-including-New-Zealand version, his name was changed to Senator Manly (after our famous Sydney beach) as there really WAS a Senator Bradley in US politics at the time.

Australia was the only country that got the Australian version.

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The Olympics are coming...RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!


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Paul Cunningham
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 146
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 08-05-2000 09:07 AM      Profile for Paul Cunningham   Email Paul Cunningham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John
They started saving a release print of aussie films in 1993.
They are starting a thing called the Kodak/Atlab cinema collection which is a collection of 50 brand new high quality release prints of notable aussie films over a 5 year period. It is targeting films between 1955 and 1992 as many from this period are difficult to locate, have incomplete negatives or are not suitable for screening. The following people are involved in the selection process so they may even make you a new Crocodile Dundee print. David Stratton (film critic) and Andrew Pike (Director of Ronin films).
Wouldn't it be great to see films such as Man from Snowy River, Robbery Under Arms, Gallipoli etc showing again.

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 08-06-2000 02:52 AM      Profile for John Wilson   Email John Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We ran the new Dolby Digital print of Gallipoli at Cinematheque last year. It was great to run it again after all these years, even though someone had missed a roller or two on the base side at some point prior.

I remember vividly running Snowy River in 1982 to a full house at the drive in. Very successful there.

If they're looking for the negatives of Dundee, they'll find THEM at the archive. They pretty much had the lot there...except for a release composite. (I didn't want to do a double head screening at an outdoor)

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The Olympics are coming...RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!


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