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This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: Film Gates...
Tom Kroening
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 214
From: Janesville, WI USA
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 07-17-2000 02:22 AM      Profile for Tom Kroening   Email Tom Kroening   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is there anyone out there that actually likes the swing down style film gate? They seem to work fairly well on the christies... but on these simplexes we have its rediculous. First show of the day a diode went out.... I went to start the next 2 shows so i could come back and fix the diode. Press start on one of them.. SNAP... flick flick flick. The splice in the leader decided to give (i wish i knew who did that one). After i had a few running i went back to work on the diode... CRACK CRACK CRACK CRACK from down the hall.. the film gate had flung open and you could see the film traveling down on the screen. I stopped it, threaded it back in, 5 minutes later same thing( this was a full house btw). In desperation i grabbed a q tip and wedge it in there till i could fix it at the end of the show.

What's even worse is that when careless people thread up they will chop right through the leaders sprocket holes with the sharp corner of the film gate. I do like the new simplex two part film gate, but i prefer the older style with the two buttons. I know its just a minor issue, but when you have to deal with these damn things on a daily basis.... its just overall bad design.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-17-2000 05:52 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey Tom,
Do you work at the "Rock"?
Mark

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 07-17-2000 10:44 AM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You mean the gate that pivots at the top?

We have those- they seem to work OK, but not great. Maybe there's too much tension on the film? Like the curved runners are pressing it too far. (Even when the band tension adjustment is set to it's lowest setting.) It takes some fiddling to position the gate (relative to the trap) in alignment and not have the gate (film runners) push in on the film too far. There are three allen cap screws holding it in.

We do have that same problem with the gate chopping film when it's closed. Ours was chopping little rectanglar "bites" at the trap lateral guide roller. If the film is being cut lower at the studio guide, I would think that is carelessness, which is harder to overcome than any mechanial problem.

The lateral guide roller should stay fixed on the soundtrack side, but spring out on the other side. On ours, it rusted slightly (a bunch of steel parts rust on Simplexes) so it didn't spring out. When the gate is closed, the curved runners force the film in at the top, chopping it. It's got to be cleaned out.


<slight rant mode on> of problems with the newer Simplex gate area

Our Simplexes are the PR1060 with 2-lens turrets, about 5 years old, so that's the model I'm talking about.

They removed the upper feed sprocket film stripper, just to run a wire. Someone must have really been high that day. It's was bad enough not to have a stripper with acetate film, but now with polyester, it's crazy.

The (2) #4 screws holding in the gate hinge pin (P-7812) loosen up constantly. I finally got longer screws, and added split-lockwashers and nuts to prevent loosening.

The lateral guide roller (G-4435, P-4166) rusts, as described. The expense the manufacturer saved by not using stainless steel is now being borne many times over at theaters through maintenance.

The gate latch lever (P-7801) has a shoulder screw to hold it, but allow it turn free (to open the gate.) The hole in the latch was not bored deep enough. If you tighten screw to keep it from falling out, the latch is held and won't pivot. All 7 of our projectors are like this, and other operators tell me the same thing about their projectors.

The aperture plate was plated a silver-color, which corrodes and prevents it from sliding. Big annoyance. I know the manufacturer no longer plates them, but dealers want to unload their inventory, so we still get stuck with one occasionally. I wire brush them to get the plating off, but have to do it very carefully because that heats and warps them, so they don't slide. (We do not have the newer design with the thicker, milled out aperture plate.)

Also, the two openings (flat, scope) in the aperture plate were placed too close together. The designer did not leave enough room between the two. When in the scope position, (the plate is pushed in) light escapes through the side of the flat hole and is projected on the wall next to the screen.

I don't like the combined "gate and intermittent sprocket pad shoe." (I know this is on even older Simplexes.) It almost requires you to remove one hand to close the gate, but if you do that, nothing is holding the film around the intermittent sprocket. I can do it without letting go of the film, but it's awkward.

<slight rant mode off>

for doughnut= 1 to 4
grab
chew
sip tea
next x
burp
<end>

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Dave Cutler
Master Film Handler

Posts: 277
From: Centennial, CO
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 07-17-2000 03:06 PM      Profile for Dave Cutler   Email Dave Cutler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have been working with Simplex PR1060 for a year and a half now, and must say that I have no problems with them. Took me a little time to figure out how to align them properly so I get a steady picture with out damaging the film or the SDDS track. Once I got it down I haven't had problems, and have grown to like them. I have no problems closing the gate while holding the film at the top of the trap and at the intermittent. Mine are just over 2 years old so I don't have any problems with the aperture plates either.

The main thing I don't like is that they replaced the framing light (just a simple bulb) with a circuit board with several LED's on it. They are a pain to change and don't provide much light, they also cost more than the bulbs.

All in all I have had a lot of luck with them, so I like it.

John, shouldn't the line of code read 'next doughnut' not 'next x'? You changed the variable name.


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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 07-17-2000 03:47 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dave, you're right; I'm mixing my languages. I'd only get one doughnut!

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Ethan Harper
E-dawggg!!!

Posts: 325
From: Plano, TX, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 07-17-2000 04:41 PM      Profile for Ethan Harper   Email Ethan Harper   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Right no i am using simplexes, i am not sure of the model though .

i am happy with the gates on these, it is spring loaded and it has a lever in which to open it with and another sepereate lever in which oyou use to close it with. i think that this is cool because it wont swing open since it is spring loaded. At least i havent seen it yet.

oh yeah i too have never had problems with closing the gate with the shoe pad connected to the gate. then again, i go bottom up. .

When I was working at skinemark oh im sorry i meant Cinemark. we had the centurys where the gate was spring loaded and locked into position. I was happy with these, although i have seen a couple of those swing open on a couple times.

"if you were a doughnut would you eat yourself? i know that i would."
--Homer Simpson

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Tom Kroening
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 214
From: Janesville, WI USA
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 07-17-2000 09:57 PM      Profile for Tom Kroening   Email Tom Kroening   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah i really liked the two lever spring loaded type the best, but of course thats what i learned on so i might just be biased. Yes i USED to work at the rock mark.... Did you do some work in AZ or something with the company? Just curious how you knew that.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-18-2000 01:04 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I use an older Simplex (PR-1003 ?) with the spring loaded trap/sprocket shoe.

If you hold the film between your index and second fingers, (palms facing each other -- right hand on the bottom), you can position the film in the gate and then trip the release lever with your right thumb. If you "curve" the film under the intermittent sprocket so as to keep it aligned on the teeth, your hands will automatically be out of the way when the gate snaps shut.

After a while, you'll be able to do it blindfolded. (And EXACTLY 25% of the time you'll get it in frame! )

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-18-2000 02:57 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Randy,

Try that trick exactly as you described, but switch hands. That way you don't have to flip your right thumb over backwards to release the lever.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-18-2000 10:28 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hmm... I'll give it a try tomorrow. I have a movie to show. I'll try it then.

(I have no freakin' idea what the movie is, bit I'm going to show one! -- I just got a phone call yesterday!) )

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Michael Cunningham
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 186
From: Anchorage, AK
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 07-19-2000 04:07 AM      Profile for Michael Cunningham   Email Michael Cunningham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That same hand positioning (right hand on bottom) will work well for the newer, non-spring loaded Simplex gates too. Use your left index and middle fingers at the top to hold and position the leader and reach over with your left thumb to push in on the end of the hinge pin, releasing the "swing" gate out of the locked position. On the bottom (intermittent sprocket), use your right index to hold the leader around the sprocket and your thumb to reach over and grab the edge of the gate and pull closed. Your fingers will all be out of the way if your left fingers grasp the leader above the gate and your right finger holds the leader against the sprocket from the bottom.

-Mike

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 07-19-2000 09:14 AM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The guy who trained me made a big point about *not* just pressing on the gate close lever and letting it close. Suppose the film is not exactly in the trap, and the gate cuts it? Polyester might be tough enough to not get cut, but what about acetate? I really feel that the gate should be "controlled" when closing.

As a side note, I've been in booths where there is almost no room in front of the projectors. Threading such that you have your right hand on the top of the gate requires you to face away from the front wall. In a small booth, you can't do this (especially if the projectors are tilted)- you can't get back far enough to see the gate, and your right hand would probably block your view of framing window.

Just my 0.02 worth......

BTW, loved that line from Homer Simpson... pretty racy, even for that show!

Oh, I forgot, I'm a Jedi now...

. These are not the doughtnuts you are looking for.

. "These are not the doughtnuts we are looking for."

. Put your doughtnuts in the back of my speeder.

. "Put the Empire's doughtnuts in the back of his speeder."

. Move along.

. "Move along!"

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-19-2000 10:30 AM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I thread the same way Randy does with one exception....I use my left thumb to keep the gate from snapping shut. Hold the upper loop in position with first 2 fingers of the left hand; trip the lever with the right thumb. This leaves the left thumb free to "ease" the gate closed.

BTW I have an 18-year-old Simplex.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-19-2000 02:36 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I thread the gate first. I do that becasue I want to be sure both loops are the right size. If I thread the (upper or lower) sprocket first, then there's less room for error.

I threading a proj. that doesn't have digital, the top loop isn't as critical. If you have DTS/SDDS it is. The biggest complaints I get about digital sound is because it is slightly out of sync. (I call it "Chinese Disease") It happens because people don't watch their loop size. All the people I have taught to thread gate first don't have that problem. All the people that I haven't taught, thread the feed sprocket first and they are the ones that get the Cheinese Disease. They usually call me up on the radio from downstairs complaing that the DTS is broken. Try as I might, I just can't pound it into some people's heads that the upper loop size is CRITICAL!

I also tried Brad's idea and it works.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-19-2000 03:05 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The size of the upper loop is critical as it will effect steadieness of the image and also the loudness of the machine
and on some machines can cause scratching
There is only one threading path on a projector and that is the right path

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